Here’s the thing. All things being equal, I’d like to model 1885, but lately I’ve had pause. I looked around on the net for some MDC 4-4-0’s and 2-6-0’s and found that the undecorated 4-4-0’s have all but vanished and the 2-6-0s are getting scares. I know that MDC is coming out with a 2-8-0 soon, but I’m worried that I won’t have the cash to buy the 15-20 locos I’ll need before they go the way of the Dodo as well.
Right now all I have are 2 MDC 2-6-0’s w/o sound.
Plus it’s just plain easier to find stuff for 1905–and I have a LaFever climax that would not have come out in 1885. But my current structures and figures are more 1885–and there’s a lot of work in there.
If I went to 1905 I could sneak in a Shay and Heisler for laughs and giggles–with a little back dating maybe.
What are some of your ideas? What am I not thinking of?
The thing is if I change years, I want to do it before I build any more.
I’m just thinking if your are “out west”, 1905 in Gold Hill NV is way behind on technology as 1905 NYC. So if your looking to model where you have wagons, saloons, etc and still be in the 1900’s, with the cool thing likes Ron’s Climax, and cool locos like Shays and Heislers, would not be a stretch.
If my assumptions are incorrect about your modeling location, sry bout dat. [:D]
I think that 1905 is much easier for a variety of reasons. The Bachmann 4-6-0 and 4-4-0 is appropriate for that era and runs great. The MDC stuff is much more appropriate for the later time too. There is a some old MDC stuff like the Pullman Palace cars out there that look great that can be found on Ebay and at swap meets. The couplers are more appropriate too. Yet it still has the period feel. - Nevin
I am modeling a section of the stretch between Sacramento and Virginia City. It is in the Sierra Foothills in the fictional towns of Train City (named by my son) and Rock Ridge, a mining town. Train City is a thriving semi-metropolis where all engines going over Donner Pass have to swap engines.
I’m planning ops sessions and I thought an old time layout would be a gas on the ops circuit. I think a level of consistancy ads to the realism of the ops.
Main one. I like the internal consistancy of a well though-out layout.
On the other hand, my son’s Harry Potter train will have a staging track all it’s own.
Well, transportation really didn’t change that much between 1885 & 1905 (there were only a few 10s of thousands of rather rickety automobiles on the roads in 1905, and trucks were fairly rare [1000 or so?]- horse & wagon were the mainstays as they had been for centuries/millenia before; and as for airplanes…) EXCEPT - the Good Roads movement (started by and for bicyclists) was under full steam in 1905, instead of just getting started (well, in 1880) , so you’ll need better paved roads and some old-school saftey bikes upon them in 1905. Also, more electrical/telephone poles & wires, more brick buildings, and you can run bigger & beefier locomotives & rolling stock, but still the change between 1885 & 1905 is a lot less (in my opinion) than the change between 1900 and 1920, especially in more rural areas, and the western US (the Coast excepted, of course).
Besides, if you remember ‘Wild West Tech’ (and you should, although they kinda ran out of topics toward the end), they covered right up to the start of WWI in some of their shows, so they would certainly consider 1905 to be kosher old west…
This is how I lean with respect to your question, Chip. How much did exterior appearances really change in structures and practises between the years you place as your bounds? Did the tracks look much different, or were they used differently? Is there any reason you couldn’t cover the bases of your tastes over time by building the earlier vision, but getting some of the more modern equipment to run, either as a change now and then, or for when you actually update your operations. In other words, build the old style and run what you can reasonably run now. Paint over available engines in the 4-4-0 and redecal as so many of us have to do. Then, when the time comes that you get your hankering for 1905-15, you can modify some of what collects dust daily on the layout, and introduce to your trackplan (with changes) some of the newer stuff you had purchased a few years back that are first seeing the light of day.
I guess I don’t see your quandry quite like someone who has to contend with all the almost monthly developments that happened between 1945 and 1952 on most US roads with introductions of new diesels as if a new model automobile year had just passed, and fixed dates beyond which steamer w-x-y-z nevery ran. If the worst comes to the worst, yank a stack and put a details west one in its place.
I feel for you…I really do, because this dilemma and paucity of motive power is a bear for you, and has been for many long months now.
If you are talking about the MDC’s theya re fine, but when I started looking for them they were getting hard to find. The 2-6-0’s in SP were pretty scarce as well. If they make another run, then all is well.
Chip, The area you are modeling did not change that much from the 1880’s to 1905. Buildings, wagons, even men’s clothes didn’t change much. Smaller roads such as you are modeling were likely to be running older equipment with maybe one or two more modern egines or passenger cars. There were several reasons for this:
Many of the “diggins” had pretty much played out in the 1890s and early 1900s.
The market for silver collasped during this period, leading to mine closure and reduction in production
The US went thru some pretty serious economic depressions and panics during these years, many of which had a negative effect on smaller railroads.
The result is that your railroad probably would have suffered decreased revenues during the period, making it hard to replace equipment. The old V&T was a classic example of this, retaining old equipment long after it was obsolete on Class ! roads. Look at some of the pictures of the interior of V&T’s roundhouse taken around 1914 and you’ll still see funnel stacks on some of the 4-4-0s.
Newer equipment can be justified as a more recent purchase, or in the case of the geared engines, the property of some more prosperous logging outfit. Of course if you interchange with a class 1 road, like SP, their stuff would include uptodate equipment.
So I don’t think it’s a problem inculding a lot of 1880s stuff in a railroad set in your location. Certainly more realistic than trying to explain how stuff dating from 1905 ended up in 1888.
I don’t see your problem (I do model the 1900-1910 time period). Towns that existed in 1885 were still standing in 1905; just updated with added new buildings and 1905 things like early power distribution for that new fangled electricity. People still looked the same and clothes were almost the same. My model does not use any automobiles (only horses and wagons/carriages) as it is a silver mining model; not a main-stream city.
Build your 1885 town and update only as necessary due to the loco’s available determining the “actual” layout date. In other words; quit thinking and get to work ! [:D]
I do understand where you are coming from. In another thread, the question was asked what we would do if we had reasonably unlimited resources for our model railroading. My response was that I’d expand the layout somewhat, but more importantly do the same layout in 3 different eras - 1870s, 1900, and 1920s - rotating eras about every 5 years.
Certainly modeling 1905 is easier than 1885 in HO. And modeling 1925 is even easier. Even 1870 is easier than 1885 because of the Civil War modelers. So how much does 1885 appeal to you as compared to 1905? Are you willing to give up on your chosen era for better commercial model availability? In general, perhaps about 25-50% of a line’s locos delivered in 1885 would still be in use in 1905, but the economics of keeping the older stuff running would be rapidly failing. Car size and weight and train length all grew rapidly during that period, which meant older locos could no longer pull efficient size loads. Wood cars built in the 1880s typically had a life span of 15-20 years, and again the economics of larger loads was against rebuilding and repair. So only a small proportion of the 1885 rolling stock would still be around in 1905.
Bottom line: either go with ability to run both eras (and have the extra locos and rolling stock) or you have to choose one or the other.
What I did: I chose 1900 as a compromise to get the various features I wanted. I wanted:
plausible use of sail (no steam ships) at my dog hole lumber port
use of knuckle couplers instead of link and pin
plausible use of small Class A, and maybe even Class B Shays and Climax.
narrow gauge as a still profitable, separate entity despite car load swapping for interchange
early enough to avoid bigger steam (no trailing wheels to support larger fireboxes and boilers)
I deliberately avoided the 1890s because they were such a time of financial turmoil for railroa