Thanks for all the information. Tom, you are a wealth of knowledge about B&O and the other Tom, thanks for your website showing how to make exterior light poles. Just what I was looking for.With everyone’s help, I’ve pretty much settled on a 4-6-2. I’m still new enough at model railroading to need to ask a lot of questions. This site and my LHS have been good sources.
I have found that post count is usually no indication of a persons experience. More often than not, people may have as much as everyone else in a forum, but for one reason or another, just didn’t start an account on this particular forum yet. I find that to be the case on other forums I am a member of - a new guy comes with a post count of a 1 or a few posts and seems to be just like everyone else in on degree or another. Most people in train forums have been interested in trains most of thier lives as it usually goes.
To the OP, if you find F units bland, then you may be more interested in steam with their outwardly more complex mechancial appearance - some of the suggestions here probably hit closely on what you are after. Keep in mind, as a rule, steam costs more per engine too, especially for good quality steam.
Please note the only USRA Heavy Pacifics were built for the Erie Railroad, all others are foobies!
Rick J
And the 4-6-2 Pacifics webpage on the steamlocomotive.com website seems to corroborate that. Thanks, Rick!
Tom
To select a locomotive for a B&O passenger train, you may look at images of real trains. Google : "images B&O passenger trains "
You can see B&O used a variety of locomotives to haul passenger trains. With 4 cars a single diesel unit should suffice.
An EM-1 2-8-8-4? They were used in some limited passenger service, and perhaps troop trains, until EM-1 7625 rolled over while hauling a mail train at Oakland, MD. I don’t know the exact date, but I certainly remember the number because the engine was returned to service and I had the privilege of getting into her cab at Holloway, Ohio several years after the accident when she was stored prior to scrapping. Even though the accident was attributed to a broken rail, and not to any actual problem with the engine, EM-1’s were not used in passenger service after that. There were a few exception to this when a few EM-1’s were used on excursions in the last days of steam.
I know: TMI
As for the Pacifics, TLC Publishing’s book “Baltimore & Ohio Pacific Locomotives” by Bob Withers (2013) should give you the background info you need.
Tom
Here’s a shot of the “real” Mantua/Tyco Pacific:
I’m not at all a con-wa-sure of B&O steam, but I do note the Boxspok drivers and the sanding valve cover below the sand dome. Both of which appear to come and go on this group of locos (5300-5319) And I note that the tender has 4 wheel trucks rather than 6. And is thus likely not as long as on the model. Also note the heavyweight cars behind
Here’s a page full of B&O 4-6-2 photos (click on left) including this batch:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/bo_steam5.html
Ed
Lucky B&O guys!!!
The Tyco era Pacifics are fairly easy to come by, and don’t go for too much. I got mine in a box of old trains 25 dollars for the box. Most collections have one of these in it, and are found fairly cheap at most shows. A great puller, and very easy to fix up. All I did was clean off the motor commutators, oil it up, and it was ready to go! Can never go wrong with an old Tyco/Mantua steamer!
One of the first locos that I bought was a Bachman B&O Alco FA2, DCC with sound. I later picked up one of the matching B unit to run a consist. The detail is not great and the sound is just OK, but the price is right and they have been very good runners. If on a budget you can get an A/B pair now for under $200 total and they fit the era.
I also bought a set of three lighted Con-Cor B&O heavyweight cars to pull with the Alcos. So I am right there with you on that.
Have you run the cars on your layout yet? 18" is going to be tight but if your trackwork is good and you don’t have S-curves then you may be OK. They do fine on my 24" minimum curves but not so good on my Dad’s smaller layout.
I have an EM-1 but I think it would look pretty silly pulling just three passenger cars. You guys are adding a B&O Pacific to my “wish list” [:)]
A few more notes:
The BLI USRA light 4-6-2 lettered B&O would be a good choice - very common to see those pulling locals all over the B&O system from their construction until the late 50’s.
And the cars the OP has are fair enough representaions of a typical B&O local.
Mikados were very common helpers for the Pacifics over the worst grades, specificly the Allegheny Summit west to Ohio, and would be pressed into local passenger service in the mountain divisions when no Pacific was available - All of the B&O Q-4 class Mikes, and most of the Q-3 Mikes had steam heat lines for passenger service.
The BLI “heavy” Pacific is not a correct model of ANYTHING, it does not have the correct 79" driver size, or the correct boiler details of its Erie “prototype”. It is a light Pacific chassis with 73" drivers combined with the “generic” BLI USRA heavy Mikado boiler.
The B&O P7, as built, is very similar in specs to the ERIE USRA heavy Pacific. As noted in the photos and info above, the B&O modified and rebuilt the P7’s on an almost continual basis. By the end of their life, they were very “modern” steam, despite having been built in 1927.
The passenger equiped GP7’s are what replaced those Pacifics on the locals, so that would be the next logical choice.
Also as noted above, steam heat equiped EMD F3’s and F7’s, and ALCO FA2’s served as power on many passenger trains, with the E units generally reserved for the “name trains”.
When new, ABBA F3 sets were very commonly seen pulling the heaviest long distance secondary and mail trains over the mountains.
The B&O had a moderate sized fleet of 4-8-2 locos, mostly home built, very powerful, and these did see passenger service from time to time. But for the B&O, the 4-8-2 was largely a fast freight loco - so much so that they never owned a Berkshire (2-8-4) or a Northern (4-8-4)…&nb
Be only conscient that in some occasions a well marketed ‘fan train’ could have generated a lot more pictures that the everyday’s service: the most photografied is possibly more the exception than the routine.
seba
If you go the Mantua route, note that the later (after about 1990) RTR Pacifics came with a can motor; earlier ones had an open-frame motor. In either case, you’ll still need to isolate the motor from the frame for DCC. You could always get one of the DCC ready newer ones from Model Power / MRC.
Yeah they are beauties. I just can’t visualize them on the point of heavy weight passenger cars.
Well, here in the east, F units pulled lots of heavyweight passengers cars in the late 40’s, all through the 50’s and into the 60’s.
Many eastern roads used large fleets of heavyweights right up until AMTRAK.
Many had been rebuilt and “modernized”, but the B&O in particular was very resistant to lightweight passenger cars and only fully imbraced them after the C&O took ownership in 1965.
Keep in mind, eastern roads were also slow to give up the fully painted look in favor of the stainless steel look on passenger cars as well. Even when they did start using stainless lightweight cars, many had painted window bands, or even window bands and letter boards with only the lower part stainless.
Sheldon
I’ve seen photos & heard stories of B&O FA’s pulling heavyweight coaches on excursion trains out of Canton, Cleveland, and on the former BR&P. I’m not aware of their use on B&O’s premiere passenger trains, but it could have happened, I guess.
If you go for a Pacific, be aware that by the end of the steam era, there were probably no two B&O Pacifics that looked identical. The various P-7’s (like the Mantua) had headlights in the centered or elevated position. If you go for a USRA P-5 light Pacific, the headlights were invariably elevated after the 1920’s. P-6 details pretty much matched P-5 details except that P-6’s had Delta trailing trucks and Vanderbilt tenders. There were numerous other less prominent details that could individualize models of any of these classes.
Tom