For those not familiar, this HO scale locomotive was quite unusual when compared with other models. The E7 came factory equipped with the same "gruesome" motor used in O Scale locomotives! The motor of the E7 is huge and fills up the space in the center of the locomotive shell. It has a large, single disc shaped flywheel. According to info, this monster could pull 50 car HO trains without breaking its stride! When running at a good speed, you can set the power pack to Momentum turn the throttle back down to zero and watch these units continue to run for a “lonnnng distance” before slowing to a crawl and stopping - just like the prototype!
A few months ago, I pulled my two undecorated units out of my storage box after having sat in there 15 years. They growled like Athearns on steroids but ran well. I’m going to paint them into the SCL “Bumble Bee” scheme. I realize that these motors probably pull some serious amps (2 or 3) so for DCC I will need the higher amp O scale type decoders. With help from a good friend I’m going to dissasemble the units and give them a thorough “tune up”. Hopefully most of the “Athearn Style Growl” will be eliminated. I’m planning on installing “see thru” grill and radiator fans. Also planned are Soundtraxx DSX decoders with the WABCO “honk horn” for both units as most prototype E units were delivered from EMD with these horns. [swg][tup]
Do any of you own these types of units or any old Model Power locomotives with the oversized motor?
If you find one at a swap meet with this motor, don’t overlook it so easily. They’re great running units. The factory boxes are light blue, white, and red in color.
I’m asking because I’ve never seen anyone mention these good running locomotives on this forum. I’m certain that HO modelers over 35 will remember these units.[;)][:D][8D][8)]
Hi,I Have a Model Power Shark with a similar drive train.BIG can motor plus a lot of lead weight.Once in a while a gear slips off the axle on back truck though.Its a lugger just like a real Shark was Might draw less current then a old Athearn-not sure. Joe G.
The current draw on those big Roco motors is rather low. These models were built by Roco, just like the first Atlas diesels, and the recent P2K 2-8-8-2. ConCor acquired the tooling along with the ex Atlas GP38, GP40, SD24 and SD35, and move it to Mexico. The tooling was basically worn out when the acquired it.
NWSL has replacement axle assemblies for when that motor spins the gears on the axles.
A big part of the noise issue is the flywheel, it is a die casting, and needs to be balanced, or replaced with a machined wrought one.
I’ve searched but I still can’t find the paperwork or diagram on the Model Power E7.
(I lost a lot of stuff when I got married and moved out of my parents home in 1987 ).
It’s good to know that this is a Roco motor. Roco’s reputation speaks for itself. I erroneously assumed it was a “higher amp” motor because of its “gargantuan” size and it’s applications in O scale locomotives. I appreciate the info on the flywheel and axle assemblies.
A good friend of mine showed me how to perform the “current stall test” for DCC. Hopefully with a tune up the amp draw will be low. He also suggested that I check the drive shaft as a loose fit can also be a noise contributor.
Hopefully Proto Power West-A Line has a compatible flywheel available. Since sound is my goal I definetly want to lower the “growl” level as I would prefer to hear the sound of an EMD 567 coming from “under the hood”.
Considering the time period this model was manufactured, the body is pretty decent with the basic detail. The one feature I find distracting is the placement of the body retainer screw on the roof! Nothing that some body putty or fiberglass resin couldn’t take care of. Cmarchan has suggested that I look at the lower body section, particularly the pilot area where a small hole for a thin screw or pin could be drilled out and put in place.
Having worked for Concor at the time, I will pass along some info on these units. Concor did not acquire the tooling - we bought parts from Roco. The tooling certainly was not worn out as the parts were every bit as good as original. Some units were partially assembled in Mexico and some were done in Arizona. Most of the noise comes from the drive line parts - specifically the fit of the dogbone and sockets. If you take time to clean flash and fit the ball joints to the sockets they will run better and much quieter. Also make sure the body does not touch the motor as that large body will resonate like a drum. Also shimming the gears in the trucks ala Athearn will make them run better. Both the worm gears and idlers need to be shimmed.
While we’re on the topic of older Con-Cor products, does anyone have any information on the N-scale F3s they made which used a Fleischmann chassis? I have one in GN livery which is a great runner - interestingly Fleischmann are still using the same chassis design today on their German locos (they’ve added a flywheel, and the block is different (narrower, lower, and with different underframe detail/trucks, but otherwise the same design). I’d be interested to hear when these were made and in roughly what quantities - I’ve never seen another one since buying mine a few years ago second-hand.
I have 2 HO Model Power E-9’s, I am also familiar with the growl they make. If I run mine with the shell off and put slight drag on the flywheel with my finger the noise stops. I thought the noise was coming from the motor and was going to replace it, even though it runs great, just too much noise. Anybody out there ever quieted one of these down?
It seems like Jsoderq may have given us a solution, or at least a very good place to start. From what he indicates, replacing the motor might not solve the noise problem. You’ve indicted an interesting point: The Flywheel. I also checked the “dogbone shafts” on my E7s. There is a great deal of “sliding” freeplay. So it does seem like the drive train is the culprit. I haven’t even disassembled the trucks yet as I don’t have diagrams.
(Wish I could get one!)
Why not consider giving his suggestons a try?
I would rather keep the Roco motor as it is a quallity brand and has the muscle to pull heavy loads at speed, if desired.
To everyone; Thanks so much for your input! It is very helpful!
FYI – Model Power used the same chassis, huge motor and drive for both the Baldwin RF-16 'Sharks" and the Alco FAs. The Baldwin trucks are incorrect, for Model Power used the trucks from the Alco FAs which look similar but differ in the details and I believe also in wheelbase. Does anyone know if the FAs were originally tooled by Train Miniature? hey- AntonioFP45- keep us posted on your progress re: installation of DCC in your E7s; I am refurbishing two groups of Shark ABAs and want to install DCC in four powered As to use as slow drag haulers, similar to how the prototypes usually were utilized.
Thanks for the encouragement. I will post progress. Before I install the DCC I definetly have to give the girls (E7s) a very thorough mechanical “tune up” as indicated on the above posts. I will perform Jsoderq and Nfmisso’s recommendations with the help of Cmarchand. This would be followed by the bodywork. Hopefully I’ll have this done before June.
As for DCC, the plan for now is installing a TCS decoder in conjunction with a Soundtraxx DSX “sound” decoder. (For those that are not aware, TCS decoders are underrated and from what I’ve heard have fewer problems than comparable competing decoders.
Yes the BLI E7’s do pull well and “earn their keep”. Before purchasing one from a hobby shop, ask the sales rep to do a "demo test "run for you. Most model railroad stores nowadays have “test track” or even a small layout where locomotives and rolling stock can be tried out before the customer makes the purchsase. [;)]
Happy Hobo Trains in Tampa has a “sweet running” BLI Burlington E7 that’s used for customer demonstrations. Nice running unit! (If you purchase one, just remember to keep the volume turned down low! While enjoyable, sound can become irritating at high levels)[:0][:p][:D]
No. The Train Miniatures shell was a reasonably-accurate FA1, while the Model Power FA was more of an “FA1.5”, with the length of an FA2 and the radiator arrangement of an FA1.
Of the four “good” Roco-built locos Model Power released (FA, E7A, E8/9, Shark), the FA was the least accurate. It pulled as well as the Shark, though.
I have fond memories of testing a used Shark on the test track at a hobby shop I was working at in the mid-1980s. We got the thing to creep so slowly it took more than a minute per tie.
I quieted every one of these that I sold when I had my shop in the 80s. They were just too noisy. I filled the gear cases with vaseline and ran them in each direction for 30 minutes and then took them apart and cleaned everything out. That softened the gears enough to ‘run them in’ . I heard last year that at least two of the ones that I sold are still running (quietly) on a layout after 20 years. However, a warning here. Those units are old and I don’t know how this would work with them today. Those gears have aged. Use caution!
The current draw was better than the old Athearn motor at that time.