1st / 2nd Generation Diesel List ...?

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

Howdy,

I keep hearing about 1st and 2nd generation diesels and want to know how/where to find this info? (BTW, I already know about most of the 1st gens I think, I’m mainly interested in knowing what came next). Is there a canonical list someplace that I can consult? Are there 3rd / 4th / 5th gen diesels?

As a follow-up, is there a place to discover how individual railroads (in my case: PRR, N&W, and WM) purchased diesels and where they were put into service and road numbers and whatnot?

Yet another follow-up… I rather suspect that not all prototype locos were painted the way the hobby mfgr’s put them out-- for instance, Bachmann (Life-like, Walthers-- whoever they are this week) puts out PRR GP7/9, SD7/9’s all in the same brunswick green scheme. Firstly the color seems a little off-- but that’s a nitpick-- secondly when I go out on the web to find prototype photos, most of the time what I see are black locos. Does anybody actually know?

2

  1. I believe this whole business about generations is mostly a modeler’s concept. The prototype manufacturers may have touted a new second generation at the time of their introduction, but I don’t know for sure. I would bet that if they did so, it was not continued into succeeding lines. Over time the lines between generations have blurred anyway. IMHO the SD40 deserves its very own generation.

  2. There are a number of books about PRR power that would help you. You might start with Hirsimaki’s “Black Diamonds - Black Gold” series. Alvin Staufer was a prolific writer about motive power of various railroads. You should search his titles for something to suit you. Fred Westing is another. NW and WM might be more difficult.

  3. Pennsy’s Brunswick Green was truly a shade of green, but so dark as to appear black. When you view colors on line you are limited by your monitor’s ability to reproduce true colors. There are so many variables ( lighting angle and color temperature for example) that you cannot take your screen view as literally correct. Some of the models really miss the mark, too. But when viewing in person in daylight, you can see the greenness in prototype PRR paint.

3

The “generations” of Diesels are mostly a railfan construct - you’re not likely to hear a crew complain because the got stuck with a “second generation” locomotive.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a “third generation” locomotive, much less fourth or fifth. I’ve always considered the change from cabs to road switchers as the line between first and second.

As for colors - many colors don’t appear in photos as what they really were. Brunswick green, for instance is a very dark shade of green and may well appear black in photos.

I recall reading some years ago in one of the model rail mags of a fellow who acquired some actual paint from his favorite railroad (a shade of orange or red, IIRC). He painted a model with it, only to be told by his fellow modellers that it was the wrong color. When placed next to the real deal, it was obvious that it was spot on.

4

The Second Generation began with the introduction of pressure sealed carbodies, central air intakes, and for most railroads low short hoods (N&W and SR excepted). The first models were GE’s U25 series, EMD’s GP30s, and Alco’s Century series.

The Third Generation is marked by the locomotive having early microprocessor controls for engine control and wheelslip control, for GE this means the Dash-8 series, and for EMD the 60 series locomotives.

The Fourth Generation saw the introduction of AC traction systems.

5

Thanks everyone who replied. Particularly about the paint question. I understand about the differences in monitors / lighting conditions / cameras / film / processing / etc-- how about this… I have been to the RR Museum at Strausburg PA and seen the E44 they have there on display in PRR livery-- can anybody who remembers them from “way back when” say that is Brunswick Green? It seems awfully “green” to me and not at all as dark nor muted as I recollect…?? Though it is possible and likely that dirt and grime could account for some of the difference.

6

Thanks for the reply-- so how/where did you get that info? Is there a list someplace?

7

There are the Kalmbach published Diesel Spotters guide and it’s successors are good for this (look on the main part of this website for info). Also theres a website called “the Diesel Shop” with rosters and other info…

8

I think we have Trains Magazine and DPM to thank for the term second generation diesel. See DPM’s book Diesels West from 1963. I agree that mechanically second generation diesels started with the pressurized engine compartments, but operationally several railroads began replacing FTs with GP9s.

9

Put a good layer of powdered charcoal on the Brunswick green and it will look more like the real thing, you can’t judge a “fresh from the paint shop” model to a real engine with years of road grime on it.

Best definition I heard is that first generation diesels were diesels bought to replace steam engines, second generation diesels were designed to replace first generation diesels. So a RR would buy say FT’s in 1941, and in 1963 trade them in on GP-30’s.

I have heard references to third and fourth generation diesels, with third generation beginning with GM’s “Dash 2” line, and the fourth generation representing the huge high horsepower engines of today - wide cab SD70’s, AC4400’s etc.

But there isn’t a precise definition to any of this.