My hope for this year is for more small steam engines to be produced. Bachmann has been great with what they have made so far. But I still would like to see more 4-6-0, 2-8-0, 4-6-2 and 2-8-2s produced. Harriman engines would be really nice. With all of the articulateds that have been sold in the past few years I can’t believe there is no market for smaller engines. More WW-1 era equipment would also be nice. - Nevin
If Mike or Joe are looking, and I’m sure they are, c’mon…the market is begging for the more common smaller run-a-day steamers. Let’s get some 4-6-2’s on the market, another 2-8-0. Another 4-8-2 now that Bachmann has stopped producing their Spectrum model. How about a nice Prairie type 2-6-2? Or an Atlantic 4-4-2? Maybe some industrial tank engines in the 2-6-2T and 2-8-2T configurations for logging and mines.
Crandell
I and some others have received an email from Athearn, Athearn is dropping the rebuild of the Genesis 4-6-2. If you do not believe me, email Athearn and ask them about this loco.
It was going to be sold through the Athearn/Roundhouse line.
Caboose Hobbies was holding an order for me and canceled the order, telling me the same thing.
Don’t forget, the North Pole is now in China and the Chinese Santa does not dealing with the USA much anymore. Probably a language barrier.
Rich
Let’s face it, guys, if and when the manufacturers eventually get around to issuing an example of small steam they’ll almost certainly be asking big steam prices for it. The production costs aren’t that much less to produce a small engine than they are for a much larger one…and then there is the question of maintaining their profit margin.
The fact is that there aren’t a whole lot of hobbyists these days willing to pay say $350 for an Atlantic, or Prairie, steam locomotive and that’s about the price any new example will list for. At the same time, while small steam is desired mainly by the more experienced hobbyists for operating on their layouts, the big engines appeal not only to such operators, but equally, or even more so, to the dabblers and collectors. The latter engines will be in much greater demand and sell out far more quickly because of the larger customer base. So guess what kinds of steam locomotives you are likely to see come to market in 2011? With the demise of IHC, I’m afraid the days of truly affordable, yet reliable, small steam very likely came to a close.
CNJ831
I’m with Neville & Crandell on this… let’s get a quality small steam loco set up on a “pre-order” basis and see if there is a marketable demand for it.
Like CNJ831 said it may cost $350., but look at the price they’re asking for the new Bachmann 4-6-0 DCC/Sound Ten Wheeler. I’d have to grit my teeth to met such a price, but for a quality Pacific I’d do it!
Come on BLI & Proto!!! Bob
I agree that there is a demand for more small steam.
This topic keeps coming up on the various forums and as everyone has heard over and over is that the price would be too high for the market place.
So we keep getting more and more of the large steam engines. I forgot who it was but there is a UP 2-12-2 in the works,if I remember correctly.
However, based on past performance we will most likely have to look to Bachmann in all probability for the majority of our small steamers.
I was very disappointed to hear as one of the posters on this topic stated that the long awaited re-release of the Athearn 4-6-2 has been declared dead.
CNJ831 is right - it costs nearly as much to engineer and build a small steamer as a big one. The equation small = cheap and big = expensive does not work out properly. I also agree that there is a demand for smaller steam locos. The market must be pretty much saturated with all those Big Boys, Challengers, UP 9000´s, PRR T-1 and Q´s, and other big articulated steamers which have been around in recent years. It is time, that Mike or Joe (or the boys and girls from Athearn, Atlas and Walthers) re-discover their entrepreneurial spirit and start to market a series of those bread-and-butter locos which built the nation!
I have over 200 steam engines already. Can’t think of any that i would want that are not already make without getting very specific . When i ran out of US engines to get I went to Hornby, Fleischmann, Jouef, Roco , Liliput, and even Bachmann China for some more.
Bob
I cant understand why there should be a problem paying $300 + for a smaller steamer as long that it has the same detailing and features as the larger ones. Or is it some mental barrier at work here? I mean, it isn´t like buying a car or house. Quality costs and as long as brass is as “bad” for operation considering the price and DCC unfriendliness, I think most would like to buy the plastic or hybrid engines.
In Europe we have paid almost as much for a smaller engine as a bigger one, and we don´t really argue about it, as if it is a engine we need it doesn´t matter how BIG it is…
I don´t buy big engines as I don´t want/need them, but if the mfg´s would do some smaller ones, I think that I and others would gladly buy them.
This is the thing…most of us realize that the price is going to be just as much…up to a point. So why the mental block?
I think that this idea that it should be ‘cheaper’ is just an excuse to keep us from imagining other solutions/situations.
What happened to the idea of growing a market?
“Oh…but it costs MONEY”—is what happened to that idea…
One more thing. I can´t understand why there are no kits for smaller engines on the market, considering the demand for them.
I would gladly buy a brass etched kit of a 2-6-2 or 2-6-0. Look at Backwoods miniatures, they have some wonderful kits for non US engines…
Or is the US market “dead” for this type of kits? If so, why?
i don’t know if the market is actually “dead”…yet. But it does appear to be in a coma…
I do think it comes down to the unwillingness in “invest”…remember that word?..in building that market back up. Look, we are getting lazy here if we say that a 5.5% ROI is not enough…if WALMART…for pete sake is only at a 5.5% ROI then why not here?
Yes. there are a lot of challenges here…one is to get rid of the notion that there is no market…
AAACCH!!! Maybe just accept that the market is elsewhere …it is not dead but asleep…
I know I have stated this before, but the “normal” way of making kits is that some individual or small group makes a kit for their own use and offers it to the market to make a little profit on it.
Or has the US market gone all "Professional? If all small suppliers must have a big profit margin and so on, then I understand that no one invests in the hobby anymore.
In Sweden we have at least 10-15 Mfg´s of brass or white metal kits, and no more than maybe 2 or 3 of them has it as a full time occupation.
I am currently in the final stages of finishing a craftsman building kit (the etchings still to be made), and I pay all of the production myself, and hope that I can sell as many kits that I have some positive result in the end.
Oh there are loads of small 'cottage-based" mfg’s out there. It’s just finding them here i guess.
My little project is now at the prototyping stage…we are doing up a 2-6-0 in CN form…something along this line…
We spent a few days getting all the photos for this and then getting the plans made up…lots of parts into this little buggy that is for sure…It was supposed to come out last fall but due to certain health issues of mine I had to back the project release until next Spring…
Well that IS interesting! How can I find out more about that Loco?
But where do I find these other small suppliers?
I have searched the Web vigorously to no avail. It isn´t easy being on the other side of the world…
Well, right now I’m in the middle of setting up a host for the website then we be doing it through that route.
I’m thinking that many have not even set up websites yet…as we are now only beginning to do the same…I’m still trying to figure out the web design for our site…[xx(][banghead]
We have someone coming down to do some ‘proper’ photography of the piece and we are considering a couple of shows up this way in the Spring when we reveal the model…my photog skills are kife when it comes to close up work…[(-D]
I think that the market for HO small steam is largely satisfied in the U.S. There currently are and recently have been offerings in the different wheel arrangements. True, your particular desired version may not be made but most of the market is happy to have a 2-6-0, 2-8-0, etc without worrying about whether it’s for the B&O as opposed to the CB&Q.
As for steam locomotive kits, I don’t see that. Mass produced ones can’t be sold for enough less than RTR to have a market. Low run, highly detailed models would cost $400 (and up), have to be different from current offerings, and be for a specific prototype - a market probably too limited to be viable.
As those of us in the minority scales have learned, get it when you see it, even if it’s not exactly what you were hoping for.
Enjoy
Paul
I don´t see that, as if that would be true, no Mfg would make any more small locomotives…
I DO know that the market for big mallets must be so overflowed by now, that the profits can´t be in the + ranges anymore.
Those two statements actually cancels each other…
If people would be so specific that they wouldn´t buy a generic kit (wich easily can be made as desired) but instead would opt for a specific RTR loco, wich isn´t the type you would want. I can´t understand it!
More likely a case of that it is to much work to actually do it yourself I think…
A kit isn´t to be cheaper than a RTR loco, as the results of the kit could be 5 times more valuable than a RTR loco. At least if it is brass.
BTW, I sold one of my kit built brass locos a while ago. It had cost me $300, and it went for $1300. So if I had bought a RTR loco for that price, I would had lost some good modeling time AND if I had sold it, maybe gotten half of the purchasing price…
Although I’m looking for a few smaller steam loco’s for my fictional train museum I really don’t think the market for steam is that big. Early diesel is far more popular.
A few random thoughts on this topic:
$350 for an Atlantic, Prarie or Ten Wheeler? is that WITH DCC and sound? Than it could be $250 in a DC version, less the usual 20% street discounts = $200 - I’m all in if its a good model.
AND, it can be RTR or a kit, as long as the kit is not just a box of supplies for a scratch building project.
As has been discussed before, with some planning, multiple prototypes could be made with common drives - RTR or kit.
I think there is a market, just no one has the resources and guts to go after it.
I surely want more Atlantics, Modern Ten Wheelers, Pacifics, Mikados, etc, to choose from - and I would buy the right ones in 6 packs, not just one of each.
Sheldon