Some time back there was a discussion of what was the most produced HO steam engine ever made. Most information was concerning PFM brass locomotives.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/156482.aspx?PageIndex=1
As the general consensus was the ATSF 2-8-0 being the most produced steam engine.
What was the second most produced HO steam engine?
If you speaking strictly brass, the consensus is likely correct. There are books on brass that detail the various runs and their production numbers. That would be where I would start my research.
If plastic and die-cast models are included, that’s a whole 'nother story. Production numbers are not available, but are likely to exceed brass. Even in the '60s and '70s, there were many modelers who could not afford brass, and bought the other (me, for example). I would hazard a guess that anything that was used in a train set for years likely had the largest production numbers. Bachmann and Tyco would probably be the biggest beneficiaries of steam train set sales and production.
just my thoughts
Fred W
Märklin produced (and sold) over 5 million of this little critter:
Good point, the information must have been exclusive to North America with those kind of numbers.
There seemed to be a correlation between brass production which was documented to have the 2-8-0 as the most produced locomotive by PFM which was the major player in the brass market. It was thought by most that the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 was most likely to be the locomotive that was produced in the highest number.
I have changed the title of the post to reflect it is the North American market that is being referred to.
What I found strange was that when I checked PFM’s documented numbers of locomotives produced the number two engine was the Sierra 2-6-6-2. The numbers produced were 6,042 compared to 8,047 for the ATSF class 1950 2-8-0 locomotive…
IMHO either the 0-6-0 docksider or the oft repeated Bigboy by AHM and any other number of manufacturers would get my vote
I would have to say the Docksider, might even be #1. I can;t imagine ANY brass piece produced in greater quantity. The Docksider (0-4-0 BTW) was a staple on early layouts, especially in HO since the Varney Little Joe was so affordable. It seems EVERY layout in early issues of MR had at least one Little Joe and also a Mantua Goat. Besides Varney, the Docksider was done by AHM and Life Like, and probably others.It’s been nearly continuously available from the 1930’s to today.
–Randy
Without having done any research on this subject, I do agree with Randy and vote for the 0-4-0. I still have mine form the 1960’s and it still runs…
Wayne
I don’t have any numbers, but I know the Mantua 2-8-2’s and 4-6-2’s are very common and have been produced for decades.
If we count the dozens of variations of those Mantua locos, including the ones that appeared in Tyco train sets, even the "Chatanooga Choo Choo 0-8- with tender driver which reallw as the 2-8-0 minus the lead truck (how Consolidated Food completely ruined a respectable model manufacturer is one of the low-lites in teh history of model railroading), then yeah, they made a lot of those. However, the original Mantua Pacific of the laste 40’s was a Reading prototype, it then morphed into a more generic loco and lost all the Reading charatcteristics. If we’re talkign about a single specific prototype - I’m stickign witht he Docksider as my entrant in this derby. Dunno if it’s even possible to get total sales statistics, especially for mass produced items like that and goign back that far/ Brass runs are often known, or at least close to accurately known. Regualr production items liek that, who knows how many they sold.
–Randy
Considering that the topic is about the second most produced in North America, it must surely exclude most, if not all, brass locos as they are mostly made in Asia…
I would say that the Bowser or Varney locos is in the lead…
The B&O Dockside was not only a popular HO engine for Varney, then Bowser, and AHM/Rivarossi, and I think is still part of the LifeLike line, but it was also available in brass HO, as well as die cast in O and I think S. I seem to recall an N scale version as well and for all I know, TT. When all of those are added together my bet is the Dockside might be #1. Not bad given there were only two prototypes!
[Not to hijack the topic but it is also interesting to speculate on the basis of “most-produced-model-to number-of-prototype” ratio. Forgetting specialty items such as The General for the moment, the Dockside ranks high, as does the Indiana Harbor Belt 0-8-0 which has been a popular model in O, HO, I think N. ]
As to the Mantua Pacific, the Reading engine was an entirely different and earlier product, I think it was formed sheet brass not die cast zinc alloy. Manuta had a number of such engines in its line in the 1940s including the Belle of the '80s and cambelback 0-4-0. The Reading fans were well served by Mantua at the time. The Mantua, and later Tyco, Pacific that most people are familiar with is a B&O prototype – and fairly accurate at that. Between the many Mantua kits, Tyco RTR and trainset versions, there are indeed lots of those around.
At one time the Tyco brand simply meant Mantua, but already assembled RTR, or part of a train set. A beginner with a Tyco train set back then – let’s say around 1960 – was getting a great head start in the hobby with durable goods that would last decades. Only later did Tyco become a sort of curse on the poor kid who wanted his trains to just run.
The sneering if any back then was solely related to the fact that Mantua was already easy to assemble. You could often save quite a bit of money getting the Mantua kit versus Tyco RTR.
Dave Nelson
Rivarossi and Bachmann both made the Dockside in N scale, and Bachmann sold N scale Docksides for a very long time.
NO question The Docksider was & still is the best seller. Brass was made in MUCH smaller runs.
Not only was there the Varney Little Joe in the 40’s, but soewhare around 1948/1949, Aristo-Craft imported a “kit” Docksider which I suspect was the Rivarossi one. Just saw the ads for that the other day while reading through my 75 year collection.
I have no doubt the Docksider wins, both on sheer numbers AND ratio of models sold to prototypes - as mentioned, there only ever were 2 of the real thing, 98 and 99! AND they were later converted to standard 0-4-0’s with tenders. This loco also made an appearence in the 60’s book, COmplete Book of Model Railroad by Sutton. In there they showed how to use a Kemtron cab forward face plus a 4 wheel truck to make a Docksider into a 4-4-0 cab forward.
–Randy
Rex made a kit in S, 0-4-0T. American Flyer has one as well, but it’s 0-6-0T.
The Docksider has my vote also.
Enjoy
Paul
I would have to go along with the Uncle John 1950 Class Consolidation as the top loke among brass imports but since the original posting did not specify brass I’ll have to state a case for Mantua’s Mike or Pacific.
Among 2nd place imported brass I’d give due to the USRA Mikado with SP’s Cab-Forward in third position and the BB in fourth.
How about the USRA Light Mikado? We’ve had the Athearn model, Bowser produced their kit for many years and I think the dies may have been originally from another manufacturer. More recently the more premium manufacturers have made a version such as Trix and BLI.
George V.
Forgot to say… and that’s just in HO scale.
George V.
Actually the Kemtron conversion kit was specially built for just this purpose, and a couple of years ago when i bought a brass Vanderbilt tender at a swap meet I found that a prior owner had tucked the package (cabforward front, the tiny little lead truck and instructions) into the bottom of the box. It is actually a rather nicely done cab casting and I have often wondered how close it comes to one of the earlier SP cab forward prototypes. At this point in my life that is yet another project I will probably never get to. (sigh) … I’d like to come back as a ghost and shop at my own estate sale [xx(]
Dave Nelson
My first thought was also the 0-4-0 dockside.
My second thought was the Reading type 2-8-0 considering all the Bachmann, Roundhouse, Bowser, and other variations there of.
Just based on what I’ve seen at swap meets, garage sales, and the like I would also consider
The Mantua / Tyco etc 2-8-2 and the 4-6-2 Pacific.