Quick sampling? Excuse me but I spent over a month trying to learn XtrkCad and was unable to master it. XtrkCad exists today ONLY because it was abandoned by the original designer, for reasons I can only surmise. I rated Right Track highest in survivability because it has Atlas behind it, 3PI because it is a continuing cash generating affair with a superior product. That the developer will not answer emails is irrelevant. Version 8 was just released with an inside cover to MRR Track Planning 2007, more exposure than ANY other Cad program has gotten in the past 2 or three years.
I relate to your post VERY much. I am sure that the reason that 3pi was easy to learn was from the banging my head against the wall on the other two packages! Easy is in the eye of the beholder. Simple to you can be impossibly complex for me!
I guess I am a little too enthusiastic, but it was such a revelation after a year of using 3rd PlanIt that the XtrkCAD was so much easier, that I get carried away. My experience was like TZ’s. When I first tried XtraCAD it was shareware, and like 3rd PlanIt, you registered and got the key. It was actually during the couple days that I was learning it, that it became free.
But because it was free I didn’t value it. I switched to 3rd PLanIt because of the pretty pictures and I stuck with it because I paid for it. However, there were things I just couldn’t get done and quirks that I endured. I would not have switched back had it not been for helping someone who used XtrkCAD. When I did, everything came back to me and in a few minutes I was doing things I could not do with 3rd PlanIt.
I accept that your experience was different. I’m sorry that my enthusiasm offends you.
Hehehe of course it is, even though being a Colorado native (5th generation) and being old enough to have been influenced by the CO-TX land wars - I sort of have an aversion to it. Immediately regretted it when I selected that handle for this forum. Especially since I had to spell Zephyr wrong cause someone else already had it spelled correctly.
And not just that but sometimes a new or second perspective. RTS is an example. The first time I tried to use it I was flabbergasted and exaspirated. I came back about 6 months later, learned one more trick (like cntl-delete I think) and wham I could crank out layouts easily. Of course I hate having to adjust for the errors in a few of the track pieces, but I can do it.
I’ve applied that to the 3rd-Planit. So far no good. I am hoping after I re-read how to use the sectional track connections, go through the tutorial one more time, that the 4th try will be the charm and I’ll “get it” so to speak. Sometime I think humans just quit a bit short of a break through.
However after reading this thread, I might just try the other free one now - just for comparison.
Larry took off before he could answer you. We did not use the download, but waited for snail mail to deliver it. Larry thinks mechanically and found the manual helpful in deciphering the symbols. Sorry that he didn’t answer you directly. If you are still wanting his input on Friday or Saturday when he is back, let me know.
I use CadRail. It’s has a rather no-frills interface, and is very technically oriented (not surprising since the designer is an engineer). Being an engineer myself, I’ve used many different professional CAD packages over the years, so I was very comfortable with the CadRail-style interface. Some people absolutely hate it.
Being as it’s a true CAD package (it can function as a true drafting tool, providing finished, dimensioned drawings of anything you care to detail out), it has a pretty steep learning curve. If you’re technically oriented, it’s the best product out there for model layout design, I believe. But it you’re more artistically oriented, you’ll probably tear you hair out learning it, and will likely never like the interface.
I thought about responding to the abreviation of Colorado-Texas and decided being offensive to a genuine Colorado native would be unforgiveable! My wife is a Colorado native, while I was born a jayhawker and raised a sooner. And, my ex is from Tx so I’m more than fine with Zephyr! [8D]
Back to topic, we are talking about something we could call incremental learning where we learn more from each new thing we study. IT would seem to me that we might have the inclination to like the thing we finally learned to master. However, as it is with the three I used, each product also included huge amounts of new functionality not available to the previous software. Objectiely comparing the three together, one clearly has far more capability than the other three.
My use of RTS and Xtrkcad was in sectional track, where I think both packages have an edge over 3pi. My railroad skill evolution went from sectional to flex. Parkdale RR version 2 has 6 feet of sectional track in the over 300 feet on the roadbed. 3pi works superb with flex track which probably accounts for my overall satisfaction with the product.
One of the challenges I had with sectional track is the standard libraries for all the products, none of them seemed complete and editing or adding missing components was not trivial as I recall.
Interesting to rethink through the cadd thing. But I remind myself, Cadd is a tool, like my Kadee pliers, only good on the railroad
Joe-Daddy…you cheated!!![:D] LOL, you looked at Brunton’s PROFILE, and saw that he was indeed an Engineer…HOWEVER…you don’t get a prize because you didn’t say what kind of an engineer. A train engineer, a Chemical Engineer, a Civil Engineer, a Mechanical Engineer, an Electrical Engineer…etc. etc.
I am one of those rare breeds that “reads manuals”, so what I want to know is, how good is the product, and does it do a nice job for MRR’rs.
The only way we can get a good opinion ( like Consumers Reports ) is to have all the actual users of these products rate each one from PERSONAL use.[;)]
Then, we need to know the IQ of each user. Now before everyone gets their hair standing on end ( LOL) [angel], there is no intent here to downgrade anyone. We all have our talents and lack of talents in various areas. If “I” for instance were a terrible computer user, and sucked at drafting [banghead], I would probably have a big problem with ANY of the CAD programs out there.
Also, if I hated reading manuals, but tried to “wing it” on my own by playing with the tools and tools bar, and was not very good at doing that either, I would get [censored] p… real fast [banghead] and say the product was lousy.
So “ideally” we want the AVERAGE Joe to rate these products, not someone with an IQ of 140 [4:-)].
You are not a gray fox, you are a gray rascal! [:)}
What I was doing with Brunton was telling him and you that his message was akin to what I expect from engineers and that he had passed the sniff test for legitimacy. I pretty confident that he is a licensed Mechanical Engineer who could provide his license number and stamp if it were required. (no intent to invade your personal privacy, Brunton).
So far as the average Joe, I guess I’m as close as you get, but I gotta tell you I am the below average fellow.
To your IQ point, I think it is more a historical experience and learning style issue than intelligence. Truth be known, my intelligence is more than adequate, but when I am in learning mode, some things can be very difficult to understand because of the way I have always done similar things elsewhere in the past. Case in point, I expect to left click on a turnout icon then move to the insertion point and right click again to insert the turnout. As I recall, almost every cadd program out there does that trivial thing somewhat differently. Figuring out the ‘short hand’ of creative developers can be non-trivial.
My learning style: fiddle, RTDM, fiddle, attack the DM, fiddle, google, fiddle, fume! (DM = Detailed Manual for the PC cop)
This has been an entertaining discussion about who reads the manuals and are they written in english for the lay person. In our household, my husband used the 3rd PlanIt manual for the icon translation. Since he had the manual with him in the truck, I had to learn by trial and error. Sometimes 2 heads are better than one.[tup] for 3rd PlanIt.
I can say that I like 3rd Planit… I purchased one of their first versions and it set for 4 years since I could not get it to do what the tutorial said… Probably operator error but I know my way around computers somewhat and cad programs are no stranger to me.
I purchased an up grade version and was most pleased with the performance. There is a newer version out now I believe. It is not intuitive but the handbook is well written and I have designed my railroad empire on it. The beauty of 3D is that you can see how your grades and scenery will look… It eliminates the potential of low clearance when passing under another level…
Any of the full cad systems should be worth the money… You will have to read the book however… (I know real men don’t read instructions)… I started at 50 and the world quickly got easier.
Same here. 3rdPlanit is very feature rich and helped me find a few mistakes (i.e. like trying to connect two tracks on different elevations) ahead of time. I also liked the ability to use it like a regular CAD program and add layers for turnout numbering, blocks and more. If you’ve never used a CAD program it has a small learning curve but if you have it is a breeze.
CADRail version 8 ( latest version ) arrived at the house on Wednesday along with the manual, which, so far, I found very good. I have read therough the 1st 55 pages and performed many of the sample steps, and also did the 1st simple oval with one turnout. It has all the tools for Atlas, ME and many other manufacturers for their tracks and turnouts of various sizes, it can do elevations, easements, buildings, mountains and elevations as well as 3d view…so it sounds like it is very much the same as 3rdPlanit in scope. Looking at the math on how this program was derived, it is a true CAD program, the accuracy is precise. Lets see how the rest of the reading goes before final judgement.
I note that you received your copy of Cadrail8 in February. Since then, how accustomed have you become with the software?
Given that I’m contemplating purchasing either 3rd PlanIt or CADrail8 I’m curious to ascertain your experiences. The closest I’ve come to using a CAD program is basic Corel Draw and from what I’ve read, with the acquisition of either one, I’m in for a pretty steep learning curve.
My reasons for purchasing either CADrail or 3PI are to design a layout firstly, and once thats completed use it to convert plans to N scale.
