Does anyone know if there are plans for any manufacturer to release a new 4-4-0 that is not a Baldwin ( like the current Bachmann Spectrums )? Anything by ALCO would be GREAT!
Let’s get real here.
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The Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0 is a model of a Richmond 4-4-0 built for the Maryland and Pennsylvania RR. The Ma and Pa Richmond 4-4-0 was actually built a year or two after the 7 builders (includes Richmond) merged to become Alco, so could be considered an “Alco”.
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Alco was formed in 1901 from the merging of 7 smaller locomotive builders. Rogers, then the 2nd largest builder behind Baldwin, joined Alco in 1903 or 1904 (depending on source). See http://www.steamlocomotive.com/builders/ for more information on Alco and other builders. By 1901, very few 4-4-0s were still being built; they were considered too small and light for the longer and heavier trains of the day.
yours in research
Fred W
My deepest apologies, your highness…
Apparently this is not a forum for learning. After all these years I was taught wrong I guess there are dumb questions after all.
Oh and by the way, I’m looking for an 4-4-0 earlier than 1900. So the current Spectrum or Roundhouse 4-4-0’s really don’t work unless some kitbashing is done. So before I started ripping one of these apart I thought I’d use the resorces in this forum to ask if there were plans for an earlier version of the 4-4-0 planned by any manufacturer.
Sorry for the confusion.
Hey now,
He was just trying to help you.
Cheese
Then let’s all " get real ". Give a newbie a chance. We’re all here to learn right?[#oops]
I know what I want to do, I’m just having trouble getting there. This forum is a great help, don’t get me wrong. But lets treat each other with a little respect.
2 wrongs never make a right. [sigh] I’m sorry for the previos posting.
The only HO scale standard gauge locomotive that would fit this description and is currently cataloged by any manufacturer would be one of the Bachmann “golden spike” engines. Unfortunately these are of rather disappointing (i.e. 1970’s train set junk) quality.
There has been rumor of Model Power re-releasing the Mantua General.
Precision Scale has announced plans to build an HOn3 D&RG 4-4-0.
Almost forgot… there are the three 1830’s era Bachmann HO scale train sets.
Sparky - The fact is that significantly pre-1900 HO model railroading draws about as much interest and enthusiasum today as does TT gauge. The number of pre-1900 modelers is far too small to support production of any items by major manufacturers and the few previous attempts over the past quarter century have proven dismal failures. Even the few pieces of reasonably accurate period rolling stock that have been offered over the years have been from makers who specialized in very small, custom runs of unusual cars. Most of these companies aren’t in business any longer either.
In short, especially for motive power, either consider drastically modifying what little early post-1900 equipment is available today (or older, OOP, stuff from eBay, like Mantua’s Master Model Builder’s series offered in the 40’s and 50’s) yourself, or look into brass to meet your needs. At best, it is a scratchbuilder’s area of interest. Today’s major HO manufacturers are not about to venture into pre-1900 territory any time soon.
CNJ831
Thanks for the information. Looks like I’ll need to be relying on my building skills!
you’re not entirely on your own here , there are a couple of very good message threads about pre 1920 modelling including links to suppliers of just about everything you need . unfortunately i’ve lost my links to those threads and can’t point you there . perhaps someone else could ?
ernie
Actually, “Sparky,”
The Roundhouse 4-4-0, while not a model of any specific prototype, has lines that are representative of 1890s locomotives. You can see a review of this engine in our February '07 issue. Removing the dynamo just ahead of the cab and substituting an earlier-style headlight (i.e., Cal-Scale no. 204) would help put it more definitely in the 19th century.
Happy New Year,
Andy
Thanks for the information.
I’ve been spending alot of time online and found B&M #494 4-4-0 that is currently residing in VT. This is my model and what I’m trying to achieve.
Hmmmm. Only one of the major manufacturers makes anything aproaching a quality car (and it has post WW1 details). None of the major manufacturers has produce a new wood frame truss rod car in over 30 years. Only one manufacturer has produced anything bordering on a good running engine in the last decade or so (the Bachman Spectrum engine is a WW1 or later era detailed engine as is their 4-6-0).
I wonder why there aren’t more modelers? Hmmmmmm.
Dave H.
Quite honestly, the popularity of pre-1900 model railroading has never really been a chicken or the egg situation at all…it’s simply that the pre-1900 era has never interested a significant segment of HO hobbyists, even when appropriate equipment was available (~50 years ago).
Typical hobbyist interest seems to have largely revolved around relatively recent prototypes during the true steam era, eventually settling into the steam-diesel transition era by the mid 1950’s and ever sense.
In this regard, notice that Mantua’s Belle of the 80’s (with passenger cars) and their 8-Ball Mogul were not switched over to diecast form when the company made its transition to that method of production in the early 1950’s. Their subsequent diecast General really had only brief popularity, associated largely to the influence from Disney’s film The Great Locomotive Chase. Aristo brought in a selection of early era, low-end, diecast locomotives around 1960 that sold poorly. And about the same time, Gem, Far East, and several other importers brought in numerous diminutive pre-1900 brass engines for modest prices.
However, there obviously must have been relatively little hobbyist interest expressed in these models at the time because these items disappeared from the marketplace in rather short order.
CNJ831
Not sure what you consider a quality car, but La Belle Woodworking has them and so does Ye Olde Huff n Puff. They are also a fairly easy scratch/parts build.
Enjoy
Paul
Not sure what you consider a quality car, but La Belle Woodworking has them and so does Ye Olde Huff n Puff. They are also a fairly easy scratch/parts build.
Enjoy
Paul
I can understand there not breing much interest in the fifties, but late 1800’s railroading would semm to fit in perfect with today’s modeling needs. They ran rather short trains (what, 8-10 cars, uausally?) most lines built were designed to haul traffic from point a to b on the same line, not thought as to interchange, so you wouldn’t need a large stock of cars. many early roads assigned locomotives and cabooses to crews, so there was alot of variety among their own fleet, with sometimes rather colorfull, and often very clean, engines. And for the proto’s, you could require your’e whole crew to know morris code to recieve their train orders. Like the upswing in interst in HOn3 and N scale, you could get alot of railroad in not alot of space.
Maybe they just need the right marketing strategy. Like a decent starter set, not a toy like trainset, but something more like Kato did when they came out with the unitrack. Any extra cost could be easily offset by the fact you wouldn’t need as large a fleet of cars as contemperary modeling.
Just my [2c].
I frequently see very nice brass 4-4-0s for sale on ebay. These often sell in the $150-$200 price range. Withe the addition of a can moror and NWSL gearbox, you can have a great running locomotive that fits your era. I never search for plastic locos, but you may find a lot of great deals on plastic Americans. By the way, these are often brand new, not used items.
Good luck.
-Phil
I agree. From the late 1800’s up to WWI the operations are simillar to what many of actually run on our layouts. But there’s a lot of really interesting rolling stock and engines from after WWI.
Enjoy
Paul
Sparky: First off, welcome to the forum. Don’t let the soreheads get you down. Despite the jibes of those who have absolutely no idea of what they are talking about, old time modeling is alive and well, with a wide variety of fine stuff available, some of it of near museum quaility. If you haven’t already, check out the offerings of companies like BTS (better than scratch) and Trout Creek Engineering. Westerfield is rerunning it’s 1890 period Heinz reefers. Model Railroad Warehouse has got updated versions of some of the classic Redball kits. LaBelle is alive and well, and has upgraded many of it’s classic kits.
In the used markets it’s still possible to find a lot of great kits such as Central Valley’s at bargin prices. I’ve been invovled in this kind of modeling for over 40 years, and IMHO the supply of quaility items has never been better, nor has this type of modeling ever been more popular. I hope the guys in TT have as much great stuff available to them these days.
As far as motive power goes, you might consider the Cary conversion boiler for the General mechanism. Admittedly this is more modern than you’re looking for, but it can be backdated, and it has a non Baldwin look. BTS is kicking around the prospect of a generic conversion boiler for the General as well. If they do it, it will be first rate. As mentioned before, the Bachman Golden spike engines can be upgraded considerably, and can be alter to represent a variety of 4-4-0 for various early manufacturers. Old brass is available for several types of 4-4-0 including the old NYC&HR Buchann speedsters. Don’t know which B&M engine class you are interested in, but MR ran a series many years ago on building a B&M 4-4-0 using the old Mantua Belle mechanism, and homemade parts including a wooden boiler. This project could be updated with modern castings and materials like styrene to produce a