4-8-4 Engines slipping on 2% grade on new layout build

Hello everyone, I am currently in the process of building a new multi deck layout and I just completed the first continuous loop on the bottom deck. The layout is a folding dog bone with a a 2% grade and 30" inside and 32" outside curve radius on one side. I have a Bachmann 4-8-4 and a MTH 4-8-4 that I am trying to pull a 5 car passenger train with and both locos slip and struggle to make it up this grade. It does not seem like these engines should be struggling with such a small load. Does anybody think this is normal? Should I look into weighing the engines down?

I have a Broadway Limited Y6B that can pull a 16 car freight train around this loop like there aint nothing to it. So I feel like its not a track problem. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated because I had visions for pulling 11 car passenger trains around this layout. Thank you

Locomotive weight is the first thing that comes to mind. Too light for the grade and weight pull. First I would look at.

how old is that Bachman?

shane

An engine’s pulling power can be affected by a grade and by a curve, so having a 2% grade on a curve may affect an engine more than a 2% grade on straight track would.

As Shane mentions, which Bachmann engine you have and how old it is could be a factor. With a few exceptions (USRA 2-10-2 and Heavy 4-8-2) Bachmann engines have plastic boilers so don’t have much weight, which can cause slippage. Also, older versions of say their NYC Niagara had relatively poor motors so didn’t have much pulling power.

You don’t say which MTH engine you have, but there too, if it has a plastic boiler it could be causing the slippage.

Make sure too that all the wheels are firmly on the rails. Many Bachmann engines have an apron that swings down from the back of the cab to sit on the ‘lip’ at the front of the tender. If the apron gets under that lip, it can lift up the engine slightly, making the drivers not fully reach the track. I try to tip the apron all the way up, get the engine’s wheels all on the track, then reach in with a screwdriver or pencil and lower the apron.

Take a good hard look at how free rolling those cars are too. I have a BLI Niagara without traction tires that pulls a 5 car consist of walther’s Proto 85’ passenger cars up a 3-1/2% grade that is the full length of a 25" radius curve. I have a Bachmann light 4-8-2 that could pull any combination of freight cars up to a certain length up the same grade, unless I had one particular caboose coupled on the end. That one caboose rolled so poorly it cut train length up the grade in half! I never knew it on the flat layouts I had prior.

Both the Bachman and the MTH locomotive were bought last year.

The Bachmann is last years version of the J class 4-8-4 611 and the MTH loco I also bought last year and is the J class 4-8-4 603 I bought new. I am pretty sure the Bachman is a plastic boiler but the MTH feels like metal.

So would you suggest getting tungsten putty and start adding weight to the inside of the engines? How much weight would you start off with?

This much modified Bachmann locomotive…

…was never a good puller, and eventually quit running. The tender was a partial scratchbuild, using part of a sun-damaged covered hopper that I converted into a centipede-type.
I sold it, quite cheaply, to a friend…he was aware that it didn’t run, but it was a fairly nice loco for photographic purposes.

Pretty-well all of my locomotives get added weight…

I re-built three of these Athearn U-boats…

…fitting them with two motors each, and filling the bodyshells with sheet and custom-cast lead weights…

Each of them weighed in at just over 33 oz., and all three had similar drawbar pull-capacities of 8.3 oz. They easily pulled a 22 lb. train of hoppers, filled with Black Beauty blasting medium, up a 45’ long 2.8% grade, composed of two complete horseshoe-type curves (one to the right, and one to the left), followed by a series of wide radius S-bends.

I add weight to all of my locomotives, diesel or steam, and usually as much as can be crammed-in.

Most of the added weight is lead, cast in homemade aluminum moulds.

Here’s an Athearn Genesis Mikado, one of six modified with extra weight…

…the air tanks are brass tubing, also filled with lead, and the cab has sheet lead under the roof, and lead seat’s for the fireman and engineer. The tender was modified by removing the coal bunker’s cast

I can’t recollect how much extra weight I added to this locomotive, using a form of doctorwaynes method, but would suggest that as you add the extra weight, try and get the locomotives weight balanced over the centre of the drivers.

Balance by Bear, on Flickr

Out of curiosity I just weighed the engine and tender, the result is 24 oz.
[2c] Cheers, the Bear.[:)]

I guess I’m wondering if it is slipping.

If so, I’d wipe the rails with rubbing alcohol and clean the locomotive’s wheels with alcohol.

I don’t know if that will make a difference, but it is the easiest thing to try before you get to more complicated stuff.

i’m curious. could you post the weight of the loco and passenger cars (total) and how easily the passenger cars rolls down the 2% grade?

Another factor that is familiar to buyers of smaller brass locomotives and that is that the driver treads are really slick when new and over time and with enough running that should ease. Don’t rub the driver treads with abrasive as that is an invite to places that gather dirt.

It should probably also be mentioned that while 2% grades are rather common on layouts, on the prototype a 2% ruling grade is something to be reckoned with.

Dave Nelson

I have a Bachmann light Mikado that couldn’t pull a dozen freight cars around my basically flat layout. I swapped out all the old plastic wheelsets and it so imprived rolling performance that i just kept goilg until all my wheels were metal.

unfortunately I do not have a scale at the moment. I can tell you that if you u couple the passenger cars at the top of the grade they will run very fast down the grade and well past the end of the grade about 4 feet into a staging yard.

I notice a lot of you guys using lead. Has anyone ever used tungsten putty? It’s heavier and moldable just seems like a better substitut. Just wondering if there is a reason.

The only reason I use lead, that I have a reasonable amount that I got for FREE! I also have the wherewithal to make moulds to make the weights.
Cheers, the Bear.[:)]

One sure-fire fix - add Bullfrog Snot to the rear set of drivers on each loco. It acts like a traction tire. Works great!

Cost. I have a bunch of lead flashing. It was free. It’s maleable and easy to work.

How much weight do I add to my locomotives? As much as I can fit. Some of my brass locomotives had cast zink weights. They were replaced with lead. You can find places if you think outside the box. Cab roofs, cab floors, smoke box, and fire box are some places. I even put lead inside the cylinders just leaving room for the piston rods.

Pete.

I got sheet lead from a small company in my hometown of Hamilton, Ontario, and dropped in to buy some. I don’t recall how much I had intended to buy, but the two guys running the melting pot simply cut off 5’ or 6’ of it and wished me a good day…no charge.

I also dropped by a tire shop a couple miles from home, and asked if they had any scrap wheel-balancing weights available. I got about 10lbs. of them, although some turned out to be steel or zinc.

I have lots of sheet aluminum on hand, from when we bought the house next door to ours. It’s perfect for creating moulds if you wish to cast your own for adding weight to both locomotives and rolling stock. A straight-edge, a knife, and tin-snips will do the job

Here are some pictures …

I made a melting pot, using the steel cap from

You might want to consider replacing the trucks and wheel sets of your cars and/or using MicroMark’s Truck Tunner and Truck Spreader on the journals and trucks Search results for “truck tuner” (micromark.com)

doesn’t seem warranted, yet. he said the cars roll freely

i think adding weight is where to start, but not sure without knowing weight of loco or cars