I am thinking of using a couple of #4 turnouts on my layout. They will be used in a low speed industrial area, 40 foot cars, and small locomotives. I know larger turnouts are morew reliable but I am trying to model one of the tightest idustrial spurs I have ever seen. Any input from people who have used #4 turnouts
I have eight #4 Atlas Custom Line Turnouts and even my large locomotives negotiate them quite well at low speeds (yard speed). They have been in and working great for over thirty years.
Mel
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
Aging is not for wimps.
I have used #4 turnouts on my old line, and they were Atlas Custom Line, just like Mel’s setup. Your setup meets two important criteria: short freight cars and small locomotives. So, yes, you can safely and reliably use #4 turnouts on your layout in low speed industrial areas.
Rich
Note that Atlas “#4” Customline turnouts are actually about a 4½ frog, so they are more forgiving than a “true” #4. Some people call Atlas Snap-Switch turnouts “#4”, but they are actually much sharper frogs. To the Original Poster, what manufacturer are you planning to use?
Byron
Beat me to it. That info is in John Armstrongs Track Planning for Realistic Operation. I recommend it.
Atlas Customline Code 83 #4 turnouts work about as well as Peco #5 (Peco doesn’t make a Code 83 #4 except as a Wye). ME #5 work as well as Atlas #4 both in the straight diverging route style and the ladder system style with the curved diverging route.
For yard speeds these tighter turnouts should work fine. Long wheelbase steam locomotives maybe not but why would one of those be traversing yard tracks?
I just bought an Atlas Customline #4 RH today to use for a branch siding crossover because the Atlas surface mount switch motors are handy in some locations (we have a double deck section and below layout switch motors would interfere with the track below). I don’t like Atlas snap track turnouts at all. I’ve taken them all out of our layout and fit Customline instead.
Peco #5 will handle everything I have up to a 2-10-2 and a GE AC4400. I prefer those.
Walthers new turnouts are available in #4 with proper straight diverging routes.
Offering something else to think about, keeping with the snap switch suggestion. Atlas makes a code 83 turnout that has more curve to the diverging route, whereas a traditional #4 has a straighter trajectory.
If you’re trying to save space in an industrial area, the curved nature of the diverging track gets you farther away from the tangent (straight) track sooner than the traditional.
There is no frog number, per se. The constraint is the radius of the curved diverging track. In the code 83 product, its 22 inch radius, plenty broad for short cars and locomotives. Its a little tighter than a #4, but could save you more space.
The #4 (or really the 4.5) (slightly straighter diverging route)
Code 83, snap switch, 22 inch radius (curved diverging route) turnout.
I have 5 of those 22" radius snapswitches. I’ve removed them all from our layout.
Hello All,
If you want tight PECO makes Code 100, #2 turnouts: ST-240 right hand, ST-241 left hand.
The last time I checked Yankee Dabbler had them in stock.
I use several of these on my pike for a wye and loading/unloading sidings.
A four (4) unit consist of GP40s can negotiate the sidings, albeit at very slow speeds; 16- out of 128-speed steps for the lower loading siding.
The upper unloading siding utilizes four (4) of these PECO #2s.
Because of the tight turnouts, 15-inch radius curves, and a 3% grade I limit my motive power to 4-axle diesels and 0-X-0 steam power.
Hope this helps.
Why?
My last two layouts used #4s for spurs and the yard tracks. All were from Atlas (code 100 NS) and worked like a charm. All of my F units, switchers, and steam locos worked just fine on them. And my largest freight cars (50 ft) worked fine too. I did not run long passenger or steam (4-8-4, 2-10-2) or passenger cars on them, but I suspect at slow speed they would have worked as well.
And, those locos had no business being there…
Yes, we all would have liked the space and wherewithall for larger turnouts for spurs and yards, but often that just isn’t workable.
The 8 Atlas #4 turnouts in the picture below are code 83 and all of my locomotives easily clear them at yard speed. That includes Bachmann 4-8-4, Bowser 4-8-4, Rivarossi 4-8-8-2, Rivarossi 2-8-8-2 and my Rivarossi/Athearn Krauss Maffei ML-4000s, my longest wheelbase six axle diesels.
I can also push my Athearn 72’ passenger cars into my yard for storage without problems.
Mel
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
Aging is not for wimps.
I didn’t like them.
More specifically, the snapswitch line is specifically designed to fit with Atlas standard sectional track. The turnouts replace 9" sections of curved track. The tighter #542 and 540 and 541 and 543 (#4 sort of) are 18" radius and come with a short piece of 18" curved track to make up the 9" curve. The 22" 544- 547 (#6 sort of) drop into a 22" radius curved spot. Four versions of each because they come with or without switch motors.
We used a 22" instead of a #6 which turned out to be not a good idea as the end of a mostly 24"+ radius curve. In effect it acted as a negative easement of the curve. It likely would work fine in a 22" or tighter radius curve. We moved the turnout into the straight and replace it with a #6 which works far better. The turnout runs the mainline through the diverging route. Atlas #6 provides a nice smooth easement effect at the end of the 24" radius curve.
The 18" radius snapswitches don’t make better yard ladders than the #4 although they would make a slightly shorter ladder. Using two as a crossover would create an more pronounced S bend effect than using two #4s.
We found the Atlas Customline double curved turnouts were also problematic. The inside radius is too tight if you are trying for 24" minimum radius. We created easements into and out of both curved routes which helps. Atlas double curved turnouts don’t work well for ends of curves whereas Peco #7 do
I personally would prefer Peco #5s, but if it’s industrial trackage, the customline 4.5s should be fine. And in really tight spaces, the snap switches will also work. My one suggestion to you in either case is that you put effort into ensuring all your rolling stock and locomotives and all track, points and frogs are in gauge and installed well. The tight radii are going to put additional stress on all this so you will have better results if you are more diligent with the gauge.
Peco #5 are very short: 8 1/4".
Body-mounted couplers are advised for pushing moves through tight curvature, of course.
Hello All,
And, the #2s are 6-1/2 ".
The OP did say…
Just saying.
The only way to get “tighter” would be to use single-point turnouts.
Hope this helps.
My whole layout is #4 Shinohara, last one was mainly those too. I can run everything I own thru them at fast speed or crawl. You can run 40’ boxcars at full speed thru them also. No problem with my 4-6-2’s or 2-8-2’s.
I have’nt decided yet will look at what people say here.
John Armstrong the “dean of track planners” more than once suggested that #4 turnouts were under-appreciated and that using them opened up more possibilities for interesting track arrangements. He did not go so far as to say that the preference for #6 turnouts was just a form of snobbery based on appearance or peer pressure, but rather his point was that it made little sense to reject #4s in favor of #6s if the actual curves on the layout were going to be just as challenging for the rolling stock as a #4 would be, and that most layouts had locomotives and rolling stock that could handle a #4.
I think Linn Westcott former MR editor wrote much the same thing about #4s.
Of course track including the turnout has to be smoothly laid and using #6s won’t forgive any track laying sins.
I was under the impression that the old Atlas Snap Track turnouts, which are often thought of as #4s but not to my recollection labled by Atlas as #4s, actually measured out to something closer to a # 3 1/2 due to the geometry of the track which was meant to fit in with trainset curves. That is why Atlas’s old track plan books indicated whether they are Snap Track track plans or Custom Line track plans.
Dave Nelson