Looks like the 611 was allowed 50 mph yesterday. It did Bowers to Cox (20.65 miles) in 25 min 31 seconds for 49 mph. On the way back, Cox to Varner (14.25 miles, 18 min 29 seconds) at 46 mph and Maybelle to Sharp (5.11 miles, 6 min 7 seconds) at 50 mph. Hopefully, the excursions will be as speedy.
I’d love to see 611 do some high-speed running as long as they don’t go TOO crazy with it. Remember, it’s the only one of it’s kind. No reason not to let her romp, as long as they’re a bit conservative.
In other words, no drag racing between 611 and UP’s 844, even though us 611 fans just KNOW our baby would win!
Why not…It’s not like they are going to do a burn out through the bleach box to get their tires hot and sticky…but will there be ‘competition grade’ sand to improve traction off the line? Will they need drag chutes at the end of the quarter mile to assist in stopping?
Hmmmmmm.
I question the value of drag chutes, whether we’re talking about 611, 844, or any other fast, modern steam passenger engine. I suggest we all just get the H*** out of the way.
Tom
Actually though, what was its’ rated maximum back in the day? It looks like it must have been a real speedster.
Bruce
The N&W Js (edit:) were sometimes run at up to 110 mph in their N&W Pocahontas days… My point being the remaining J is capable of it.
I doubt they could make her do that again, not without the expertise of the guys who could really make those girls run back in the day. We don’t have many people left who ran those things for a living, day in and day out.
-S. Connor
I’m not so sure 110 MPH was a common occurance with the Class J’s back in the good old days. The N&W’s profile was pretty much a saw-tooth “up-and-down” affair, so the opportunities for 100-plus running just weren’t there.
A J COULD have the opportunity for a run like that on the “racetrack” from Norfolk to Petersburg, a dead-level and fairly straight run but even then I think it was more the exception than the rule.
No matter, the J’s were so well built and balanced 100-plus running didn’t have any deleterious effects on the machinery, even with 70 inch drivers.
Again, I don’t think it’d be wise to try it now. 611’s the only J in existance and it just wouldn’t be a smart thing to do. Run it certainly, but treat it like the irreplaceable artifact it is.
But it sure is fun to speculate, isn’t it?
Not only was there little opportunity for it, the valve lubrication was likely to be on the ragged edge of seizure if that speed were sustained for any length of time. Average and peak machine speed of the valves are up, time for lube to spread is reduced, and effective superheat is probably ‘crazy high’ in that speed range… a multiple whammy all trending in the same direction, with the valve body at some points perhaps likely to heat to a higher temperature than the liner, reducing clearance. Even a short failure of effective tribology in a comparatively small area might quickly lead to catastrophe.
I believe the balancing philosophy is in Voyce Glaze’s notes on balancing for the class J locomotive (at the NWHS collection). The engine was balanced up to a high nominal speed in order to provide good performance (and minimal augment) at regular service speeds (which IIRC were in the peak 85 mph or so range). I believe there were known areas where 100 mph was authorized to make up time, but there was no need for that speed to ‘make schedule’ with any N&W train, as for example on some of the Hiawathas. I do not believe there were any ‘segments’ of N&W passenger service that would have commanded a premium ticket price for very high end-to-end speed.
My suspicion is that there certainly were ‘effects on the machinery’, including the known fracture propensity of the extended #4 driver pins, and offset main rod, on the original tandem rod arrangement. The thing was that Roanoke understood what was needed to keep them working right, and took the time and spent the money as needed.
Well, it wasn’t the yard accident that killed the program, plain fact of the matter was the Operating Department wanted the program ended, it was getting in the way of the other trains, and with the Claytors gone there were no “heavy hitters” left to speak up for the steam program.
No matter, it’s back. And Wizlish that was a good post! Good point on valve lubrication, we don’t want what happened to C&O 614 to happen to 611.
Thanks, I think that is the speed I was looking for. Instead of maximum rated speed I should have asked about maximum authorized speed. Whether it was by timetable or othe specific instructions.
Bruce
It is possible and maybe even probable that the fastest a J ever went was when the Pennsy borrowed one for testing.
Dave Nelson
This loco is one of a kind. Do not ever think of taking the chance of a high speed run could have bad things happening. There are too many things otside of the RR and the operators that may not be preventable.
Bruce, I have no idea as to the maximum speed allowed on the Norfolk-Petersburg section, except that it was probably 79 mph–unless the N&W had ABS there.
I do know that the maximum speed allowed on the Radford Division (Roanoke-Bluefield/Bristol) was 60 mph back in the fifties. However, there were areas in which the engineers made time up without being censured. There was an occasion when the left side valve gear on a J disintegrated above Abingdon when the engine was pulling #45. Soon after she was taken into Bristol and what was left of the gear was removed and the main rod also taken off, she was run back to Roanoke for repairs. Along the way, she met #45–and the men on the one-legged engine estimated that #45 was running about 75 mph. The engineer was able to stop on a downgrade for the meet with #45 (the dispatcher probably knew what the grades were on all of the pass tracks).
There is a stretch near Radford which was regularly used to recover lost time, and the engineer decided to see how fast his disabled engine could run–he slowed d
Was their a diesel in the consist?
The “The Modern Coal fired Steam Locomotive” movie has a shot of a J’s speedometer needle resting on 100 MPH. Since the film was commissioned by the N&W, it would seem that the J’s were intended to be able to run at 100MPH in service. Note that being able to run at 100MPH is not the same thing as being normally operated at 100MPH.
- Erik
1950s Scioto Div and Norfolk Div timetables show maximum 78 mph-- for passenger and freight, and for any engine except the 0-8-0s.
The RME article says the J had 1547 lb reciprocating weight on each side, of which 550 lb was balanced. How did N&W balancing differ from anyone else’s?
You remember that Trains article circa 1958 describing a fan trip – the writer was in the cab, and the speedometer read 100 mph. In a letter a couple months later E. L. Thompson said the fastest mile on that trip was 41 seconds.
Movie was made in the 40’s - well before the ICC’s speed regulations were implemented.
In one respect, almost none of the reciprocating balance was carried in the mains – they had only about 80lb. overbalance, which was calculated as the vertical component of main rod thrust (I don’t know at what speed or valve setting conditions). The other overbalance was distributed – ISTR with some form of tapered ‘loading’ – in the other drivers. I have not seen the actual balancing book yet, so I don’t know as many details as I should.
RME article says 25 lb in the main driver, 175 lb in each of the others.