I know that this may have been mentioned before and I believe I’ve read a post that was on this topic. I want and need a better mechanism drive for my Athearn F45 shell. The Athearn drive I have makes toooooo much noise, expecially on curves . I’ve done all that there could ever be done to it to make it quieter. Last week end I spent the whole Saturday on this with no luck. I even had a NSWL motor for repowing it. It Didn’t work, Same deal. NOISE. So, if you need a question answered, where do you go. Here!!!. I’m kind of through with Athern BB and up to my neck in fustration. it’s not the truck, but the motor. The flywheels make everything vibrate with the shell off. With the shell on, it’s even worst. Plus I would like something with more weight. What is a modeler to do???
This is what I’ve read in the past. I’ve heard that a SD45, SD40-2, SD60, SD50 would fit. Is this true? and what manufacture BESIDES Athearn will do? Before you guys bash Bachmann Spectrum, I have 2 of them (F40PH,DASH8)
Both of them run flawless. They’re quieter, smother, and heavier. So I wouldn’t mind them. I’m curious what Antonio FP45 has to say on this 1.
First you have analyzed your own problem in that you say the flywheels vibrate everything. This indicates one of several things. First, possibly although not likely, it could be a flywheel out of balance. This was far more common with the old diecast ones.
If you have disassemblked the flywheels from the motor(sounds like you have) they are remounted crooked or worst case the motor shaft is bent. Many people have this trouble when remounting flywheels. They just stuff them back on the shaft assuming they are going on straight, which is rarely the case If they are brass with plastic bushings inside, it is very easy to deform the bushing or push it out of place. If the motor is not properly supported, it is very easy to bend the motor shaft or deform the parts of the motor.
Bent motor shaft is obviously terminal. Mis-aligned flywheels require remounting or replacement. Good results require the use of a fixture and a press.
Thanks for the info, but I know my way pretty well when it comes to Athearn. All mentioned has to be checked, cleaned, straigtened, Greased, balanced, ect. has been done already. I’m trough with it. What I need to know is, can I get a Kato OR P2K SD45 , Hell even a spectrum SD45 to place this shell on. I think I’m just going to have to get on to find out. It would be a waste, I’ll just get one in the road name of my choice or better yet, get the cheapest high quality one off of ebay.
I’m a modeler who’s been spoiled to the higher quaility locomotives. My F45 is the only one who doens’t run like the rest of them and I need it because it’s the leader of my 86" cushion cars.
I’ve had this problem in the past. Itried alot of differant thinks to correct it. What finally worked was to remove the motor with the flywheels intacted and gently clamp them in my hobby vise. I than made a steady rest for my diamond jewllers file and began to rebalance the flywheels. Keep in mind that both flywheels may no be out of balance, just one. To test this simply place a light object on the flywheel to feel the vibration. I should mention that a power source is required to be connected temperarily to the motor. As it spins let the file just touch the high spot. Should help with your problem. It did mine
Hey, I even removed the flywheels and while the motor wasn’t connectd to the trucks, but the motor was still mounted it. I stll get a great deal of vibration. My thoughts on this I think it’s the frame. Why? when the frame is sitting on the truck, you know the metal hole of the trucks where the frame sits in. most of the vibration comes from there.
It sounds to me more like the bushings are in bad shape. Check to see if there is any side to side or up and down movement. If not check thr shafts of the motor for trueness. Use a medium speed and a small screwdriver and place it on the spinning shaft. If it bounces then the shat is bent. It is possible to staighten it. Although I’d recommend replacement.
I’m honored that you’re curious about my opinon.[8D] But our bretheren above have summed it up very well. [4:-)][tup]
Regarding the idea about using another chassis for your F45 shell, there’s a catch. According to my book The American Diesel Locomotive, the prototype EMD SD45 is 65’ feet 8 inches long between coupler faces. The EMD F45, which was basically an SD45 with a carbody was, however, 67’ feet 5 1/2" inches long. Fuel tank on both is 3,200 gallons. Truck center to truck center on the SD45 is 40 feet… On the F45 it’s 41 feet 8".
So lengthwise the difference in HO would be quite small, so a Kato chassis may fit, but please don’t hold me to this. I understand that you own Spectrum locomotives, however, mechanically there is no comparison to a Kato.
I would still follow the advice above before swapping for another chassis. Sometimes just one component like a loose bushing or a bent shaft can cause irritating noise. I’m about to repower 4 of my FP45s with the PPW kits since I plan on installing sound in them. For noisy trucks, the toothpaste polish method does a decent job of quieting Athearn trucks.
Unfortunately for the Athearn FP45, there is no chassis that comes close lengthwise since these monsters are over 70 feet in length and the fuel tank is longer as well. The SD80 and SD90 are too long and contoured differently. The P2K SD60 is too short. So I’m forced to go the repower route.
Thanks Antonio FP45. You are the only one who tried to answer my chassis qestion. I wouldn’t hold you to it, but you kind of confirmed what I needed to hear. Of course if I have a chance to go with Kato sd45 over a Spectrum. But to get away from Athearn BB, Spectrum is the last line of defense.
The thoughts and ideas why I’m having this problem may be true, But I’m through wasting time and days on Athearn BB. Why should a modeler have to in 2006. I rather spend a little money for a better drive. That way I wouldn’t run into these problems in 2007, ect.
I CAN’T BELEIVE MODLERS ARE STILL FOOLING AROUND WITH ATHERN BB’S IN 2006. IF KATO OR OTHER HIGH END COMPANIES PRODUCED A BETTER F45 OR FP45, THIS POST WOULD OF NEVER BEEN MADE.
I’m not screaming at no one, just making a point.
We all would of dumped the Athearn F45/ FP45 LONG AGO
As Paul3 pointed out last year, the problem is that only a very few railroads have owned these cowl units so from a model manufacturing standpoint sales would likely be limited to modelers of those western railroads and a few people that just “like the look”. (I’m a southeastern modeler, but happen to be one of those “like the look” fans.) [8D]
I contacted Athearn last year and asked them if they had considered re-tooling the cowls to Genesis standards. The answer was “Not at this time”. Frustrating but understandable though. Years ago, tool and die making costs for many HO products were in the tens of thousands of dollars. Today, as insane as it sounds, average costs float between hundreds of thousands and the million dollar mark! (ouch) [:0]
So that’s why we have limited runs and the manufacturers perform careful market research as to potential sales. Yeah, for us that sucks! So unless you find the brass versions for sale on ebay, Athearn is it.
My sentiments are similar to yours in that I don’t want to monkey around with Athearn BBs anymore. I like my P2Ks, Atlas, and Stewart units! The FP45s and two U36Bs are the last Athearn BBs I plan on keeping. I sold off the others and have a BB Milwaukee SD9 that I’m fixing up and going to give to a teen who just built a layout and needs DC locomotives.
A train, remember though, one distinct advantage the Athearn Cowls have is the tremendous amount of space inside for a DCC sound system. [4:-)][tup] According to a friend of mine who is a DCC expert, oval speakers pointing downward are better. If you’re getting a Kato drive, check and see if you have to perform cutting or milling of the weight so you can install the speaker. You won’t have to do that with the Athearn. This is why I also chose to keep my two SCL U-Boats.
How about adding weight? I have 9 oz. added to my F45. Shakes the table, just like the real thing![:D] Outpulls a BLI AC6000, and rips out ends from P2K covered hoppers.
Maybe a different motor would help. The P2K SD60 might not be the hot setup, as the trucks would be wrong. I’ve heard the SD45 trucks have a different gear ratio. I knew a fellow who found a motor from an old copier and put it in a FP45. Barely fit, motor alone weighed around 2 lbs.[:0] Won Best Running Engine at an NMRA convention.
I clicked on your link and see that their a similar setup for the F45’s big brother as well. While I have four FP45s to repower myself, I’m seriously considering buying and trying out one of these “complete in the package” repower kits.
I have a remotored Athearn FP45 that runs great. I used a Sagami motor in it even though I normally use the PPW/A-Line motors. It was very quiet until I put a sound decoder in it.
I’ve found that most noise in Athearn units comes from the universals. The drivelines are imprecise and tend to vibrate like a guitar string when spinning. With some tweaking it’s usually possible to quiet them down. Ideally when you have the shell off the engine and it’s moving the shafts should spin on their axis without any side-side or up-down movement. Sometimes shifting the position of the flywheels forward or back will take up some of the play in the driveline and help reduce the vibration. Shifting the position of the plastic part that fits on the worm shaft on the truck tower can do the same. You might also try replacing the driveshaft with longer ones. Generally you want them to completely fill up the entire cup, not be partially inserted.
I have had good luck with PPW chassis, although these are really nothing more than PPW motors with athearn frames and trucks, basically all the same parts you have already if you get the PPW motor kit, so if those can be quiet, then so can a remotored Athearn chassis.
Oops… hit submit too soon. I’ve also found that stuff can rub on the drivetrain and that also makes noise. Sometimes the metal clips that extend upwards from the power trucks get bent and rub on the universals. If you’ve rewired the engine you can cut these down or bend them out of the way. Loose wires can also rub.
The truck gears can make some noise but a little plastic-compatible grease will help quiet those. I usually pull the trucks off the engine and make sure they roll freely. Good ones will glide along with very little friction. If they don’t then there may be some gear binding.
Have you tried replacing the motor mounts?My F45s are definately first generation .They run smooth as silk and all I’ve done to them is install new factory motormounts and hardwire them.
Plastic motormount’s won’t correct motor’s with poorly balanced armature’s.
If they did, it’s because they weren’t seated properly, in the first place.
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I’ve heard that some modelers prefer to use 2-way tape for motor mounting Mashima motors. I wonder if this helps absorb vibration or is it just for mounting purposes only.