Hey everyone
Trying to decide what I want for Xmas stil. I think its this. I was wondering what people thought of the engine and there past and present experiences with them.
The engine is BLI SD40-2 CP Rail System paint with Sound
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/187-372
Thanks
Have a Merry XMAS everyone.
Hello CTC.
I know you’re new but here’s some info. Bear with me, heeeeeeeeeeeear it goes: [:p]
The BLI SD40-2 caused a stir here on the forum a while back. There are many modelers that like it [:D] …and others that don’t [|(] .
On the plus side: The sound is loud clear, and dynamic. Pulling power is good and control is smooth. Runs much better in DCC mode. [;)]
On the downside; the actual sound is “inaccurate”. QSI, the sound system supplier did make a boo-boo here. The sound that this unit has is of the GM-EMD 567 series diesels, which were in locomotive models from the 3 (F3, F7 GP7, GP9, E8, etc) up to the GP35 / SD35.
From the models GP38 / SD38 thru the SD45 and related line, GM used the EMD 645 series diesel, which sounds “differently” from the old 567 series. The 645 diesel sounds much smoother and has a very distinctive turbocharged “whine” to them. Interesting thing is that even the prototype GP38, which is non-turbo, still produces a slight whine. I spent a lot of time around prototye locomotives as a teen “back in the day”.
So, for some modelers this is not a big issue [:p]but for other modelers that appreciate accuracy, they’re not too fond of this unit[:(!]. Add to that is that the body, while decent, does not offer a lot of detailing for the price being asked. [V]
Life Like raised the detailing standards bar when it introduced the Proto 2000 line. So basically you’re paying for the sound. BLI/QSI did a nice job with their GEs and the E units. After the flack, I doubt if BLI will make that type of mistake again.
If you like the unit and not worried about the actual sound accuracy, go for it. I would not pay that price though. I would turn to Ebay or a discount dealer. $200+ is, IMHO, too much for this unit when you can get sound eq
On ebay, they are a but it now price of $200, I’d go for it. They look as good as the katos, but I have heard that they are a bit slippy, but since antonio thinks they are good pullers, I guess that they are.
There was a review of them in a recent MR< I think maybe the May or June issue. All I remember about it was that it had an A-A set of CP C-Liners on the cover. It is a frank review, and it will give you a lot of information.
Wow, thanks guys. And hats off to you Antonio. As usuaul a great write up. For what it is worth, I am truly thankful for a buch of different reasons for such a good, “non-baised, give credit-where-its-due,knock-it-'cause its needed” review. It is Appreicted.
I have only had the chance to see one in person breifly. its looked good, but then again, I am still pretty new to the whole thing and the “awe” factor kinda had me jaw dropped. One thing, there are a couple of mail order cateogs now in the magaizes selling the SD40’s for 182 I think. Tack in another 10 bucks for S/H but get it from a good company and under 200. Of course, they have the other comprobable units in the same price range.
I think its kinda of edge to the other non-BLI units. I admit though, I am leaning towad the BLI SD40 myself. I have a BLI Cab Foward and I have had great luck with it, and once, I had good service help from BLI. I also know that BLI works well on my layout and DCC system, which is more than I can say for the a few others. For the faults that it may have, I admit, I am not knowledgeable about them, and there for, really doesnt play too much into a factor to out sway my good feelings toward BLI . Althoguh, I am going to wait abit and see if the price comes down again in the spring. or maybe, Oh just maybe, Santa is bringing me one. [:p].
Best Regards
John k
Antonio:
Since I haven’t heard the BLI sound, I can’t comment on the quality. I model 1952, so turbocharged EMD’s are not part of my modeling world.
However, I work in the industry, and I can assure you that a GP35 or SD35 sound an awful like an SD40 or 40-2 because the are both turbocharged. As you state, the GP/SD35 use a 567 engine, but it is a 567D3 engine, and the “D3” designates turbocharging, same for the GP20 and 30.
A GP/SD38 sounds very similar to a GP7, 9, or their F units siblings, or a GP18. They are all rootes blown. The earlier units use “C” crankcases, the 18 a “D”.
A 567C or D can be converted to run 645 packs as they are direct replacements, but the blower drive gear also needs to be changed. Governor change is also required, as the speed schedules are different.
From a modeling perspective, none of this means a darn thing, except that the sound of a rootes blown 567 sounds like a 645 roots blown, and a 567 turbo sounds like a 645 turbo.
The only time I’ve ever heard a GP38 “whine” is when they are in dynamic brake, when the blower fan is spinning.
regards,
Jerry Zeman
Thanks for the info Jerry. I also worked in industry for 15 years.
However, the only references I gave above are based on locomotives that I’ve actually heard and a few that I tape recorded back in 1978, 79 and so forth. SCL train crews in Tampa were very friendly to polite railfans back then. I started paying attention to the sounds of various classes of SCL and Amtrak units.
Interesting thing though, even today I notice that the few CSX GP38-2s still running around in my area sound nothing like a GP7 or GP9. I saw one recently idling. Still much smoother sound than the old 567s that I tape recorded and still have on tape. I even rode GP7 #801 with Engineer Gaetani-------that locomotive’s 567 powerplant had a distinct, well pronounced baritone chant.
I understand what you are saying, however, based on what I’ve heard I personally prefer to stick with the specific sound families in the model groups. If I want sound in an SD35, I would get a Soundtraxx 567 sound decoder. For an SD40 or higher, the 645 decoder and so on.
The BLI SD40-2 runs decent. The detail is not equal to the Kato or Athearn engines and the ‘paint’ is many times incorrect(walkways/end platforms). The fuel tanks are also suspect.
The big issue is the ‘sound’ - it sounds like a cross between a old non-turbo 567(GP9) and a 645 turbo engine(SD40-2). I have heard rumors that they actually recorded a GP that was repowered with a CAT engine! No confirmation of that, but the sound is not right. Another problem is that QSI(who makes the sound decoder) seems to have jammed these units into several diesel models(from P2K and BLI) - Seems to be ‘one size fits all’. My P2K GP9 has a faint turbo whine(just like the BLI SD40-2), and it is a model of a non-turbo 567 powered engine! Right now I have 6 DCC/Sound engines(1 diesel). I am holding off on sound diesels until I ‘hear’ the sound at this time. I suspect the sound will get better, and the price will drop over the next year. As for that BLI SD40-2? There still is a lot of them available, so either they did not sell real good(or they produced to many for the market). I tend to think the former due to the paint/sound issues. If you search the internet, you can find some very good 'deal’s on them - If the price and your expectations agree, buy it.
Jim Bernier
I can buy it at cost.
So the price is not an issue.
Its the quality and sound?
Otherwise does anyone have any picks for new Candian road names engines?
Roger
The “quality” is, IMHO, good. The horn, brakes, bell, and air compressor can be heard clearly.
Inspite of my criticisms, I like the unit overall. At the club I just joined one of our members runs his BLI SD40-2 regularly and it sounds good. I’m a bit of a nit picker so don’t take it negatively.
In fact on the video link that I provided on the thread I posted about my club, the BLI CSX unit pulling the train belongs to the member I’m referring to. Did you watch the video?
Just in case, here’s the link again. The star of the show is the BLI SD40-2.
No, it ain’t worth it. It’s not a steamer.
Even though I know it has inaccuracies I like my BLI CSX SD40-2. Sure they could have done a better job making it prototypically correct for the different railroads it’s decorated in but for what it is I like it.
Bob DeWoody
Broadway limited has an awsome sounding SD40-2. The turbo charger sounds great on the locomotive. Nice detail on the locos and best of all the sound. The new line of sound coming out is not very good., but broadway limited keeps there sound going and sounding good.
James
I purchased the BLI SD40-2 because I was excited about the introduction of sound equipped models, and it was one of the first to come out. I quickly noticed that it sounded nothing like the prototypes that run less than a mile from my house, but I’m not too overly concerned. It still gets a lot of "wow"s from visitors to my layout.
The following hasn’t much to do with whether one should buy the BLI model, but I thought that since we’d gotten into prime mover designations a small clarification was in order…
It’s my understanding that the “3” indicates a specific turbo, but the “D” indicates the crankcase type. To wit: 567s had D crankcases; 645s had Es; 710s had Gs; and the H appeared in the 4-stroke powerplant for the SD90MAC. I don’t know if there was an “F” - maybe in the later 645s found in the 50 series?
Power assemblies for the 645 and 567 were interchangeable to some extent, so rebuilds found 645 power assemblies in C crankcases, such as in CN’s SW1200RS units late in their lives.
Yep, the 50 Series used the 645F engine. EMD pushed the 645 to the max and bent their diesel building reputation on it. [:(]
I was one of the biggest critics of the BLI SD40-2 when it came out. AntonioFP45 and I went a round or two on her. In my honest opinion you could make just about as good a model as BLI’s with cast pancake batter. If you want an SD40-2 model you can be proud of go with an Athearn or a Kato. I’ve seen guys at my train club install the sound system in units it can be done. Siriusly!
HI guys,
BentnoseWillie…good to see you posting. [;)] Thanks for the info last year regarding the EMD 710.
SSW, I think I remember your criticisms. They were actually thought provoking. Caused me to re-check one of these units again.
After listening to other recordings of EMD 645 equipped locomotives, I noticed that I hear no turbo sound in the BLI unit even though some posters state that they do hear one. (I guess I’m getting old).
Initially I considered buying one, however, after doing a bit of research I discovered that I could purchase an Athearn SD40-2, which actually has a decent body shell, and have accurate sound installed in it for slightly less the cost of the BLI unit. Currently it’s even cheaper thanks to Soundtraxx’s big price drop. There’s no mistaking the turbo in Soundtraxx’s EMD 2nd generation decoder.
Having been a former hot rodder, in my opinion, there are also “small” factors that can slightly alter sounds from gasoline or diesel power plant systems in vehicles. Factors such as: larger cylinder bores, longer / shorter piston stroke, cam lift duration, intake/exhaust valve sizes, updated turbo chargers, within the same family can affect the sound’s character. The 645s do have some of these differences when compared to it’s older sibling the 567.
I noticed how alterations affect sound character years back when I had my Trans Am’s engine bored and restroked by a professional. The timing was adjusted to compensate for the change. I kept most of the specs close to factory and did not install a higher duration cam nor replace my mufflers yet, I noticed that the old girl sounded differently. The character was “huskier”. Yet, to my friends, it sounded no different.
I know It seems annoying but for some reason I have an ear for stuff like this. But this is why I stated before that to me a GP38-2 sounds nothing like a GP7, but to the average ear they may sound ide
The ‘sound’ differences are really divided in two camps:
o - Turbocharged(this can be either a 567 or a 645 series prime mover).
o - Non-Turbo units(again both 567 and 645). The 710 engine is turbo only.
The difference in sound between a 567 and 645 is the ‘bore’ size, and the 645 has more ‘throut’ in the sound. Once both units are turbocharged, the ‘whine’ of the turbo sort of drowns out the differences between the 567 ‘chant’ and the 645’s deeper sound. The problem is that the ‘turbo’ sound is rather weak on the QSI decoder installed in the BLI SD40-2 engines. And to make matters worse, it appears the same QSI decoder is installed in the P2K GP9’s; which should not have any turbo sound!
Jim
Ooh, here I go!
Atlas C-424s are awesome, the best locos I own
P2K GP38-2s can HAUL! Same with the SD45!
My staple pic: Kato SD40-2.
Also the Kato GP35, SD40, SD90/43MAC, and AC4400.