Put my vote in for the Bowser. I picked mine up for $125, including the detail kit and centipede tender from my LHS consignment rack. It is still in pieces in the box, but my plan is to detail it to look like a D&RGW L-105. Since I freelance, it doesn’t have to be perfect, although the major dimensions are very close anyway so why not? At least it isn’t yet another UP Challenger. Can’t beat front mounted pumps and Elesco heater on a modern loco! And let’s face it, Bowser locos have a proven track record, nobody can honestly say how either the Athearn or the Lionel will fare in 5 or 10 years of use. Also, for the price difference, I can easily re-gear and/or re-motor the Bowser and save a bunch! BTW, anyone got a large L-105 style tender they might want to swap for a Rivarossi centipede tender?
Well after hearing all the bad news about the lionel (and knowing their track record) i’d vote for the Athearn. Unless of course I could find a recent run by Riv. for dirt cheap. 
AggroJones :
stated and Asked
Mind boggling. The Lionel Challenger. How can a locomotive that weighs 31 oz be such a weak puller? Is it the plating on the drivers? Can the plating be worn off? Are the pony and/or trailing trucks taking weight off the drivers? Can anyone with this steamer anwser these questions?
The following tip on the Lionel Challenger is copied from Tony’sTrains page and it very good if you want to improve the Lionel engine. Check out the tender weight, about 1.25 lbs. That is equal to quite a few cars with the brakes on if you don’t lubricate the tender wheels.
It might answer some of your questions.
Thanks to Tone’s Trains and Bob Liberman for this information.
This article below is under Lionel Challenger Tweaking
Thanks to Bob Liberman for more details on Tweaking Lionel Challenger.
I received my Lionel Union Pacific Challenger, took it out of the box, put it on my program track and put it on the railroad! This locomotive weights 2lb’s and to my amazement the tender weights 1.25lb’s.
I ran the locomotive on my railroad as a caboose hop for a shake down run. Here is what I noticed about this run.
The speed was just a little fast for my taste.
The whistle had a little too much reverb, and not enough base. (UP Challenger & Big Boys had very low base saturated steam whistles)
The locomotive chuff was a little bit too tinny and a little bit too loud for my ears.
I returned to my largest yard and backed up to a 25-car train for the second part of my test, pulling power. The train left the yard and ran pretty well, with a 2lb locomotive I did not expect much trouble with 25 3.5 oz cars.
The steepest grade on my layout 2.5% and it is 35 feet long and has a 40 deg radius curve on it. About half way up the hill the Challenger stalled to my amazement, I backed the train down the grade and took the locomotive to the shop.
In the Shop
I model in two scales, n scale and 12" =1’. I own two challengers, both rivarossi . Now that they are out of business, I am waiting to see what develops. Surely they won’t forget the “wee folk” of the hobby. Incidentally, my Father’s day was spent in the cab of the 3985 from Conway, Ar to Russellville Ar!!! What a treat
Banger1: 32 cars and you had to do all THAT? Funny, my Rivarossi Allegheny will do that and more up my 2.4 WITHOUT traction tires, and my BLI AC-5 does that and more regularly, just out of the box. Maybe, like the UP prototype, the Lionel Challenger just isn’t built for grades. You guys out there ever think about that? UP and their piddly little 1.5% over Sherman Hill? Maybe Athearn and Lionel are trying to tell you something–THE CHALLENGER IS NOT A HEAVY-DUTY FREIGHT DRAG ENGINE! At least not those little 97,000lb. TE UP jobs. You want pulling power? Get yourself an AC or a Yellowstone!
[(-D] [(-D] [(-D] YEAH! Either this is funny or I’ve had too many margaritas!
The UP Challengers were never designed to be drag engines, but a higher horsepower/speed replacement for the 4-12-2’s. Both engines had essentially the same starting tractive effort, but the Challenger was good for roughly an additional 1000 HP.
As for the Allegheny, it was also a high horsepower engine misused as a drag engine to haul coal and cost about 80% more than a Norfolk and Western A for a mere 1200 HP increment.
The Y-6B. Now THAT was a drag engine.
Andre
Well said, Andre. Like the Big Boy’s, the Challengers were built to haul fast freight over steep grades, but not terribely steep.
Bowser, more tractive effort than any other HO scale Challenger, fun to work on, parts readily available. You get them on ebay for a good price too.
Get the new skew wound DC71 motor from Bowser (they take trade-ins of the older DC71 motor), and use a 3 amp decoder - remember it pulls like an O scale locomotive, thus it uses power like one too.
And for those who complain about too much ready-to-run, get the kit rather than something that someone else has assembled fully or partially.
And no fair opting for the assembled valve gear. If you can’t figure how to rivet a set of valve gear together, you NEED to stick with ready-to-run. Be sure to get the superdetailing kit, too.
http://www.bowser-trains.com/holocos/challenger/challenger.htm
Andre.
I believe the reason the Lionel Challenger pulls so little is it’s dragging that 1 1/4 pound tender! [:0] One of the guys in my local club has one, and he plans on putting a plastic shell on the tender to lighten it…
That Bowser kit looks nice, I wonder how it runs?
And as far as riveting, it’s not so much that I don’t know how to install pop-rivets, as where the heck do I get a pop rivet tool thingy! [B)]
twhite Stated:
Banger1: 32 cars and you had to do all THAT? Funny, my Rivarossi Allegheny will do that and more up my 2.4 WITHOUT traction tires, and my BLI AC-5 does that and more regularly, just out of the box.
I have to agree with you on the pulling power of the Lionel Challenger as I do own the BLI AC-5 and two of the BLI PRR J1’s.
It is true that the Lionel Challenger leaves a lot to be desired both in form and function, but I own twelve UP challengers and only one Lionel and two Rivarosssi’s. For the record, I stated I do not recommend the Lionel engine for several stated reasons. I actually believe my Lionel engine has gearbox problems after only ten hours of being on the staionary rollers while breaking it in. The rest of my Challengers are good model locomotives built by Tenshodo, Key , Overland and Challenger and they run great and pull fairly well.
The Athearn looks great in the pictures, but I do not expect it to pull well either, because of the Mikado they sold me several years ago. It has a great drive train built by Samhonsa, but it is very light weight.
I have the Athearn on reservations just because I want to try it.
You don’t necessarily need a special tool. I’ve used a narrow center punch like the one on the far left of this picture and a small ball peen hammer on a hard surface. However, this method is prone to splitting the rivet flange unless you’re very careful.
However, all is not lost. Bowser includes a riveting tool in their kits. You can also buy it separately.
http://www.geocities.com/budb3/arts/meth/rivet.html
Andre
Cool Although all I see in that picture is a red X [xx(] If they include the tool all is well.
adds the Bowser kit to his holiday wish list [;)]
Who knows. It may be a whole new motor.
Sorry. Hopefully this is better: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/center-punch/BCX33.
Andre
It is
Is the loco diecast or plastic? If it’s diecast that will work strongly in favor of me getting it… [}:)] No one in my family likes “plastic toys [:(!]”
All Bowser engines are diecast metal and heavy. The Challenger weighs nearly 2 pounds (engine only). If you’ve never built a steam loco kit, however, I’d start with something simpler like the “Casey Jones” 4-6-0, the “Old Lady” 2-8-0 or the NYC K-11 4-6-2.
Andre
While I can’t say I’ve built one from a kit per se, I HAVE disassembled a steam loco for cleaning and reassembled it…
Besides, it can’t be that hard! has a vision of himself sitting at a workbench for 5 years staring at a pile of parts [:0][:0][B)]
I notice you neglected to let us know if it would still run afterward. [:D]
Sorry 'bout that. Just kidding.
As for degree of difficulty, it depends on the loco. The Bowser Challenger would be a challenge if you haven’t actually built a kit loco before.
Andre