I found this video on Youtube of a crew change on the fly on the Chessie.
Does/did this happen often or was that exceptional? Maybe E Hunter Harrison, who recently suggested that a crew change on CP could be reduced to 5 minutes from the current 20 might want to see this… suddenly five minutes seems like an eternity compared to how fast and efficiently this was done on Chessie… 31 years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO_F2oQxHBk&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL8B6F9695F630BE0D
A crew change on the fly of a WB freight at Edson, AB was cited as one of the contributing factors in the famous 1986 “Canadian” head on crash at Hinton. If there wasn’t time for a stopped crew change, it was felt that CN had been compromising on crew fatigue management. If you are running trains on that close of a schedule, you had better rethink your scheduling, as where else is safety likely being given short shrift.
Bruce
We used to do flying crew changes, especially if it was a long heavy train, and we didn’t want to have to try and start it from a stand still.
But, with most railroads having gone to not allowing employees to get on or off moving equipment, those types of hustle moves are a thing of the past.
Current Safety Rules in effect on most if not all carriers prohibit mounting or dismounting moving equipment - thus no crew changes on the fly any longer.
CN appears to be the only carrier that does not follow that rule. And Hunter Harrison is attempting to get that rule changed at Canadian Pacific. According to Fred Frailey’s recent piece, H Harrison views that safety rule as an impediment to prodctivity. If that’s the case then CN’s injury rate should be higher than what it is on other carriers…are there any numbers to support this?
How many times has CN won, or placed in the Harriman safety awards?
Never that I’m aware of…but that’s true of other roads as well. I’ve read that the Harriman awards were controversial anyway (i.e. you report a safety issue and you can consider yourself fired at some roads) which may explain why the award has been retired.
I’ve only seen a “flying” crew change once in my life…that being on an eastbound Milwaukee Road freight at Portage, Wisconsin back in the early 1980’s. Here on the BNSF at Eola we see quite a few crew changes but they ALWAYS come to a complete stop before the crew’s feet hit the ground.
Back when cabooses were used the tail end crews almost always changed on the fly… and I recall being quite impressed with how nimble and sure footed those guys were about swinging on and off at speeds that looked to be 10mph or better.
With or without the award, the FRA Reportable Injury is standard of the US rail industry and those statistics are collected and published by the FRA. The culture that desires minimum occurrence and thus reporting of FRA Reportable injuries is ingrained in modern day railroading, not just because of the statistics but for the economic impact on the companies of the injuries.
Thank you. i’m going to have a look at those numbers.
While I can’t speak for the rest of the industry, I can tell you that at the PTRA, the number of injuries from mounting/dismounting equipment has not decreased, in fact, we have had more injuries involving equipment, slipping on stirrups, hand holds failing, falls from equipment, since we went to the" no moving equipment "rule.
I can say from personal experience that getting on and off moving equipment is easier, and for me at least, safer than standing equipment.
The momentum of the train takes all the work out of it, my arms and shoulders don’t have to pull dead weight up.
Done properly, at a safe speed, mounting and dismounting moving equipment, (used to be entraining and detraining) is safe, no more dangerous that stepping on or off a moving escalator.
That’s the key, "Done properly, at a safe speed,… Unfortunately, some would get on/off at too fast a speed or where conditions weren’t safe to do so.
I don’t think FRA reportable injuries would tell the whole story. I’d imagine that FELA lawsuits from trainmen who have joint problems stemming from a career of getting on/off moving equipment played a part in getting the prohibition placed.
Besides, most road crews now a days carry too much baggage to safely get on or off moving trains.
Jeff
The railroads give crews much more to carry, they better start a Sherpa extra list.
I always loved working in the yard at night… switchlists, lantern, brakestick, RCO box, hey wait… how many hands do they think I have???
Late one night some years ago I recall watching a conductor swing off his caboose with his pack in one hand , a radio in the other, a guitar slung over his shoulder, and a pipe hanging out of his mouth… Not only good at getting off a moving train but quite the multi tasker too.
ack in the mid-70’s my parents saved enough to send me on a trip to visit my older brother (12 years my senior) living in The Woodlands, . Not far from and the MoPac/Santa Fe crossing. As part of the agenda, my brother took me to to get some slides and experience the feel of an old-time depot since at that time there was still an agent on duty. The cool factor is the station was in the corner of the diamond and serviced both lines. We came at the right time as the agent told us a freight was due with the then new CF-7s on the point. And, there was going to be a crew change to boot! For a kid growing up with crews in gray pants and maroon neck ties of the Lackawanna electric fleet, this was going to be awesome as to me crews didn’t get off until the end of the line at Hoboken.
Don’t recall any more if I talked with the crew waiting inside the AC cooled station office or how long my bother and I waited on t
Sepp,
The Conroe Depot was at the intersections of Southern Pacific Street and Northern Pacific Street and Ave. A…if memory serves me, it was moved a few blocks away and made into a gift shop/junkatorium…
The depot at Spring Tx. is still there, also re tasked…Spring is between Conroe and the Woodlands, just north of Houston.
Your CF7s were built at Cleburne TX, by the Santa Fe shops, and some still survive industrial switching duties.
Thank you! The last time I saw the junction it was just bare dirt and dried up weeds. Glad to hear someone saved it. On other point about Spring is the old Spring RR Hotel. Use to sit across the MoPac tracks as someone told my brother and I that Spring was a divisional point at one time. Had the best made hamburgers ever there made in pans with 3 foot handles! The hotel is now part of ‘old time Spring’ a collection of historical buildings turned antique villiage some distance away for the old MoPac tracks. My brother calles it a New Hope ¶ want-a-be villiage. We’re a pair of Jersey boys.
Again, thanks so much for making my day!
Old Town Spring…if you’re into arts and crafts, pottery and “antiques” plus themed restaurants, that’s the place to go for lunch, and I think the hotel is still there.
The wye is still there also, and the place where the depot stood is used as parking for the UP MOW crews, Lloyd yard is just south of there, lots of auto racks and covered hoppers.
Now, because “getting on or off moving equipment, except in emergency, is prohibited,” applies almost everywhere, one has to doubt it.
The advantage of the on the fly crew change had a lot to do with the brake release difference between the AB and later (ABD, ABDW,) braked trains. When slowing a 1950’s 100 car generic “freight” train (now box, tanks, gons…like that) putting the handle into running/release with the train brakes applied at under 30mph was a gamble except for the old heads. For them the way the train handled told them if they could get away with a “running release.”
We’re involved with long release times. If a stopped crew change were done according to the air brake rule at crew change points that amount of time for the brake release would be added to your running time. Suppose you needed 12 minutes to clear an opposing train a siding away from the crew change…if you didn’t get there a superior following train would prohibit you from leaving.
The AB release after a stop takes more than a minute; the ABD takes about 20 seconds. So, in AB days after taking an engine from an inbound crew you have that release time to add to your running time.
But change on the fly…that running release artist, who crept up to a siding switch allowing a brakeman drop off, run ahead, line you into a siding for a meet, could help you make a “good” trip when he (“She”’ weren’t in the business then) brought a train in to allow a moving head-end crew change…a couple of minutes----yeah!
I can’t imagine it in steam.
Nor can I imagine it with covered wagons…F’s, FA’s, C-Liners, Sharks from Baldwin…
Gotta get your grip up there and the engr’s… he’s on the point and you’re putting on the baggage on the second unit, a GP9. The point is a Black Widow…highball Santa Barb…
done that in 1963, been there
one more ride way out there Pioneers.