I didn’t want to put these questions with my other post. I have taken advice that I received here about a month ago and been reading things on my free time but I have found a couple of questions that I can’t find an exact answer to so I thought I might be able to find some help here.
Couplers are not always compatible, my question is why does everything I am reading make changing them out so hard? A lot of places recommend replacing the whole assembly (truck and coupler?) instead of just the small plastic piece at the end. Is there something I am missing that makes converting a bunch of rolling stock to the same coupler
Is there one coupler that would be better than the others? I don’t think I am interested in magnetic coupling, and will probably do it all by hand.
I keep going back and forth on Kato Unitrack and Atlas code 80 track. The cost being the obvious detractor. It seems to be required to use cork and ballast on code 80 track, but the question I have is it really required. I know it would look better, but is it possible to just lay down the track for now and maybe use small nails on the corners to hold it down until I get to the point that I am ready to make it more lifelike?
What is the sharpest corners I should make a layout when I want to avoid derailments? I am looking at doing a shelf layout and making going as much as 18" deep.
What is the maximum number of trains that should be used, what if two engines were used? (can this only be used using dcc?)
Most people prefer Kadee couplers. These are made in a variety of styles for different situations. The #5 is the old standby. Most couplers are mounted on the body, but you can get them mounted on the trucks. The advantage is that you can use sharper curves, the disadvantage is they are more prone to derailments when backing up. Kadees work with magnets or by hand with special uncoupling tools - wooden skewers also work. You can also do both. Most rolling stock is easy to mount Kadees on the body. If your cars already have truck mounted couplers, you’ll need to cut the coupler box off or change trucks.
You can lay track on the plywood, but going back later and trying to slide cork underneath, may be difficult.
You should try to keep your minimum radius at least 18" A lot of HO equipment is made to work on 18" curves. It doesn’t always look good. Some equipment requires 24" or even 30". All equipment works better and looks better on broader curves.
You can run multiple trains using DC. Each train must be in its own electrical block and requires it’s own throttle. Switches (or more advanced methods) can be used to switch the track blocks between throttles. With rotary switches you can switch between many throttles. Unless you have multiple loops of track you will probably find it hectic to actively control more than 2 trains at once - even 2 might be difficult on small layouts. With DCC, the whole layout can be one block, each locomotive has it’s own address, and you can switch between locomotives with one throttle to change speed, stop, etc. You can have as many trains running as you want, but again actively controlling several at one time can be difficult.
Quote “What is the sharpest corners I should make a layout when I want to avoid derailments? I am looking at doing a shelf layout and making going as much as 18” deep."
I do not believe you said what in what SCALE you are modeling. HO scale is the most widely used, and for HO, a common minimum “train set” radius, for running short locos and cars on the smallest loop o track, is generally 18 inch radius. That radius is the measure from the center of a curve to the center line of the track. But it takes two radii to make a circle or half circle of track, ie 36 inches. And that is track center line to track center line. Add another inch on each side to get to the outside edge of the track and also add another inch and a half clearance on each side between the track and the wall or the outer edge of your table. So for an 18 inch radius circle of track, you need a table (or shelf) 36 in + 2 in + 3 in = 41 inches.
If you are going N scale, you can have a circle of track on a layout 24 inches deep or even a little less.
It’s normal to have questions when you’re new to this. Here is my take on yours, in order:
All the so-called “knuckle” couplers are compatible / interchangeable. They do not work with the hook-and-horn couplers that used to be standard, nor do they work with the European-style hook and loop couplers. Changing out couplers really isn’t that big a deal. How much you have to change out kind of depends on the car. If the coupler box is an integral part of the truck, yes, you may have to change the whole truck out, but that’s not common. It’s not hard, either. Best thing to do is look at your couplers and see what you can re-use from the original assembly.
Kadee is the de facto standard for couplers. However, I am using Walthers ProtoMax couplers at the moment, because I got a bunch as free samples. If something I buy comes with a hook and horn; I’ll immediately swap it for a Kadee #5 or ProtoMax; if it comes with a McHenry or Bachmann EZ-Mate, I’ll generally leave it on the car until it breaks if it’s otherwise trouble free. I don’t use magnetic uncoupling myself, so I just cut the trip pins off.
This one kind of depends on what you’re doing. Unitrack is nice and easy to use, and very reliable, but it limits you to the track geometry of the available pieces. It doesn’t require roadbed or ballast (although you can add it), but it’s expensive. Atlas Code 83 is a good standard, and you don’t NEED roadbed or ballast, especially if you just want to put something down and see how you like it. Roadbed, however, will serve to deaden noise, as well as to give the track a realistic profile. You can use foam roadbed or cork; people swear by both. Personally, I lay track on roadbed and pin it down, then operate for a while (as in several months). After I’m sure I have trouble-free ops, I’ll glue down the track and roadbed and add ballast.
Judging by the track you’re using you must be an N scaler. There are several ways to replace couplers if you are converting from Rapidos to knuckle couplers. The easiest way is to replace the truck and coupler with an assembled truck and coupler like Micro Trains. There is a large selection of these to choose from based on the car or loco’s maker. This would be best for a beginner. Most knuckle couplers in N scale are compatable with each other, such as Micro trains, Accumates and ezmates.
The best coupler for N scale is the Micro Trains line. They have the metal trip pin for magnetic uncoupling or you can do it manualy with a Rix Pic.
Code 80 flex track is cheaper than Kato’s Unitrack. It is easy to cut and can be curved into whatever radius you feel would be best for you. Atlas and Bachmann also make sectional track like Kato’s Unitrack with plastic ballast. Many modelers use glue or calk to hold the track down instead of nails. Cork is put down with Atlas sectional or flex track before ballasting and the cork is also used to deaden the sound when installing over a plywood top.
Most N scale locos will negotiate the basic 9-3/4 radius curves, but the trains look better on larger radius curves. Some longer steam loco’s and six axle diesels need 11 inch radius or larger curves.
You can run as many cars on a train as you want. It’s your layout. Although it looks silly to have so many cars on a train that the loco’s are chasing the caboose around. You can also use as many loco’s as you like too. Two or three diesels or two steamers would look good and work well either on DC or DCC.
If you visit ttrak.org you may get an idea for a simple layout to get you started. They use Kato’s unitrak to make an easily assembled modular layout.
First of all thank you very much for the replies, it is amazing how much support a beginner can get here, I am trying to to ask the simple questions but I have had a tough time with a few of these things. I should mention that I am planning on using N scale, I appologize for not adding that at first. The couplers questions is really giving me difficulty, I took two pictures to show what I understand so far.
These are the couplers that are not compatible, but for the life of me I cannot understand how to change them out to the standard coupler. Some of the rolling stock has screws, so that makes sense, these ones don’t seem as easy. Also, from what I am seeing it is really expensive to just change out all the trucks, not that I am trying to be cheap, but I would hate to spend money on something when I am technically capable of swapping out just the coupler.
I think I understand the cork/ballast a little more. It sounds like it provides realisim, sound deadening and helps to keep the track in place. For now I just want to get this set up and see how I like it before going to the extent of installing all of that, so it is good to know that I can use just the track for now.
From what I have read other places it does appear that 11" is the right radius to use. which means I need a minimum 2’ shelf. I still want to find a way to do some switching actions so it’s fun, but I can work on that once I start skeching the layout. Any thoughts on how to go from chest level to close to the cieling? That is something I can’t figure out. I want to have a loop close to the cieling, but bring it down so that I can see the switching and have some t
The first picture of the green car has a Rapido (crapidos) coupler which used to be the coupler on all cars and you have the option to change them to knuckle couplers. Why do you want to change TO Rapidos. Most modelers change from the Rapidos to the knuckle couplers
The second picture is of a Micro Trains truck and coupler set. Most trucks are held in with a plastic pin. Some have screws. If you decide to replace the couplers only, there are couplers that go into the coupler pocket without changing the truck. They have a tiny spring inside which can fly out (wear safety glasses) and get lost. First remove the Rapido, then assemble the knuckle coupler and insert it into the coupler pocket, but watch that spring. Go visit Micro Trains website where they have a table that tells you what coupler to use. They may also give instructions on how to do it. It’s nice to have a magnifying lamp when you do it.
The Atlas track has holes in the ties to drive in small nails. Atlas also makes the track nails.
Going from a chest level height to up near the ceiling is quite a climb. Are you seven feet tall and play in the NBA. You would need something called a Helix, something like the Tehachipie loop only with many,many loops. For a beginner stick with a single level until you get more familar with it.
My layout is in a spare bedroom in my home. It is one foot wide and runs around the walls on shelf brackets. The minimum curve radius is fifteen inches. It is fortytwo inches above the floor. I am planning a second level with a six turn two track helix in a closet. The upper level will be twelve inches above the lower level. The grade will be two percent.
P.S.It would be nice if we knew your age and what part of the U.S. or other country you live in.
As to shelf width and radius. Just read a thread about HO, but the poster said that with an 18" shelf he was able to use over 30" radius in the corners. Obviously, if you want to turn back on your shelf with 11" radius you need a 24" shelf.
On my wife’s Christmas N scale I’ve changed some of those trucks and couplers and had no problem.
Bachmann, ConCor and Red Caboose and possibly others offer N Scale dummy (non-operating) “T-Shank” knuckle couplers that are drop in replacement for Rapido couplers. I am not personally familiar with any of them but from the photos they appear to be compatible with MicroTrains couplers and each other. Lifting the end of one care would probably be necessary to coulpe/uncouple them.
Real railroad cars have body (not truck mounted) couplers. MicroTrains makes couplers for body mounting. If you use them, you can cut the Rapido couplers off the trucks and reuse the trucks. However getting the body mount couplers correctly aligned horizontally and vertically is often difficult. If couplers not properly aligned the cars will derail and/or not stay coupled. The required minimum radius curve is larger with body mounts than with truck mounts.
Well, unless you are doing a 180 degree (or more) turnback curve, you can do fairly large radius (for N scale) 1/4 circle curves on fairly narrow benches - here is e.g. an illustration using 12" deep shelves (30" radius in H0 scale is about comparable to 16" radius in N scale):
Couplers are not always compatible, my question is why does everything I am reading make changing them out so hard? A lot of places recommend replacing the whole assembly (truck and coupler?) instead of just the small plastic piece at the end. Is there something I am missing that makes converting a bunch of rolling stock to the same coupler.
While there is no set rules one could use different couplers but,experiance modelers will choose one type. This allows all cars to be coupled together.
Is there one coupler that would be better than the others? I don’t think I am interested in magnetic coupling, and will probably do it all by hand.
Micro Train couplers is the defacto N Scale coupler.
keep going back and forth on Kato Unitrack and Atlas code 80 track. The cost being the obvious detractor. It seems to be required to use cork and ballast on code 80 track, but the question I have is it really required. I know it would look better, but is it possible to just lay down the track for now and maybe use small nails on the corners to hold it down until I get to the point that I am ready to make it more lifelike?
I n N Scale you’ll want smooth track work for derailment free operation.
You would be wise to use cork- N Scale is not forgiving when it comes to poor track work.
For a temporary layout Unitrack will be the better choice since its bulletproof and doesn’t require cork roadbed…Unitrack gives smooth operation from the second it properly laid-smooth joints no misaligned rail joints…
SOme of your questions have ben answered, but some in a hap-hazzard way I think.
First of course, disregard any references to KaDee couplers and HO situations. ANyone who paid attention to the fact that you mention code 80 track would have known you were in N scale, NOT HO. I will answer your questions in order to the best of my ability.
Bullet 1} NO, couplers are not always compatible. In fact in N scael there are two competing different types of couplers. The OLD “rapido” couplers are the square ones you show on the first picture. The NEW knuckle couplers you show in the second picture are replacing the old rapidos at a fast pace.If you stick with the OLD SQUARE COUPERS< you will, eventually, be left behind.
SOme recommend replacing the whole truck and coupler if that is the way it is designed simply because it is easier. It can be hard on the eyes, fingers and mind if a tiny piece of a coupler goes flying off into the nether regions of your home, never to be found again. replacing the coupler and truck requires generallly onlythe removal of a screw or pressure pin. Changing the coupler only can be more difficult. Some are adept at it, others not. I got two replacement couplers and trucks unassembled and found about 14 pieces in there that had no instructions to put togeher. To others it may seem intuitive, to me I searched elsewhere and found the replacement truck and knuckle couplers, minus the whels {I already had the metal wheels why pay for more?} at con-cor.com for some passenger cars. WHat you can do is make a few “dual coupler cars”-replacing the knuckle on one end and leave the square Rapido on the other end to be connected to other rapido cars.Trying to replace to all square rapidos may be difficult to find them…
Bullet 2} Microtrains is the major N scale coupler, but atlas also makes trucks and couplers. MOst knuckle couplers will “play well with others”. Here are some places you can get new trucks/couplers:
I feel like I should write a reply to each individual post because you guys have taken the time to help me out, but if it’s ok I will respond to everything in one post, I went through and made some notes.
I now understand that there are two different types of couplers and that the standard square (rapido) coupler is the one that I do not want. I do see that the knuckle type couplers can be pushed together, while the other one does not appear to have that option, so that is good. A couple of questions, what are the metal or plastic wires hanging down for? My understanding is that they are for magnet control, I have read that sometimes they cause the cars to uncouple unnecessarily. Are they supposed to work that you park the coupler right over a magnet, push a button and it takes off the cars? I guess I would like a little advice on if I need to go with that option or not, as it is now I think it makes sense to convert all of the cars to Micro Train Couplers
That being said, it appears that it could be really simple to pull out the coupler and spring and put a new one in, but each different original coupler needs a different micro train knuckle coupler? How in the world do I know what I have and what I need? Is it as simple as looking at who made the car and finding it online?
I am having a hard time figuring out how to remove the coupler without doing any damage. Is there a special method or tool that I don’t know about that makes it any easier?
A helix sounds really cool and what I would like to do, my question is how simple are they to buy/build? I understand that the majority recomendation is to run the trains at 54" or so, the problem is that we use this room a lot and my wife will not let me put in something that doesn’t look decent once installed, so in order to go around the room I have to get by the window, closet and door, the only way I see being able to do that is to go high and then I guess use a helix
I have been tinkering with the couplers all day trying to take a coupler out without breaking it. So far so good. It seems like it should be simpler than it is though, is there a tool I don’t have?
It should be a knife blade or very thin flat-tipped screwdriver if you have to pry off a cover and remove the coupler from over a pin in the coupler box, or a small Phillips screwdriver such as those found in the small plastic jeweler’s or eyeglass-maker’s sets available at dollar stores. One of those should get into most coupler boxes with which I am familiar.
