Well, I’m about to put in my order(!) for turnouts and track so I can get ready for construction on a 5’6" x 10’ HO DCC layout. I plan to use 5/8" plywood mostly cookie cutter style subroadbed and cork roadbed. I will order Walthers Shinohara code 83 turnouts, use Atlas flextrack and a couple of 90 degree crossings.
a) any reason not to use the Atlas code 83 crossings with their flex? For instance, I see Peco makes an (expensive) “insulfrog” 90 degree and I’m not certain whether any differences will matter.
b) On rail joiners…which ones to use on this system. I see Micro Engr makes code 83 for $8 (for 50), Walthers for $12, but not sure I see Atlas code 83 nickle silver?? Which suggested?
c) Do folks use insulated rail joiners for gaps or just cut a separation where the few electrical gaps are needed? If the latter, do you ensure the separation with a bit of epoxy or other in the gap as a spacer?
d) Is Midwest cork the predominant brand for that type and pretty good for cork?
e) What are the Atlas flex track “end ties” I see in the code 83 listing? Do I need those or should I just cut any extra ties needed from waste pieces of flex track?
f) My XTrackCAD software says I need 1066’ (29.6 pieces of 3’) flex track. What additional amount do you suggest for waste, etc (e.g., 10% is only 3 pieces).
g) I plan on ordering one Tortoise now so I can do an example installation. I’ll wait on the others and items like track end bumpers for a 2nd order.
h) I seem to recall a height difference between the W-S code 83 turnouts and Atlas code 83 flextrack. Any details on how to handle that? Or would I regret not buying Walthers flex when using their turnouts.
Sorry for so many questions. Your advice is much appreciated!
A. Any code 83 crossing will do. Peco mates pretty good with Atlas.
B. Any rail joiner will do. The ME is smaller in profile and is easier to hide.
C. My club uses insulated joiners on the permanent and portable layouts. I hand lay at home and just use a piece of .010 styrene glued and sanded. Then I make plastic rail bars for the inside and outside with NBW on the visible sides.
D. My LHS only stocks Midwest. I tried that WS foam stuff but did not like it too much.
E. If you use flex you will have plenty of ties left over.
F. Always have extra if you can afford it. It will not go bad sitting on your shelf and you may find other uses or additional track needs.
G. ?
H. Any height difference will be in thousandths of an inch. If it bothers you so much you can shim the lower with paper or card stock.
Use the Atlas crossovers, different brands of track vary somewhat in profile and if you mix you will need to do some shimming and filing to make a smooth joint. Sometimes it can;t be helped, if one line does not have the piece you need, but if it’s available, use the matchign stuff.
For the same reason, use the Atlas rail joiners. Others will be either too tight or too loose on Atlas rail.
I use insulated joiners, since the newer Atlas ones are clear, not bright orange like the used to be. Cutting your own gaps is fine, especially if the needed gaps do not occur at a natural track joint. Best to use styrene the same thickness as the cutoff wheel and glut it in place and file to shape to prevent the gap from closing, if you roll your own.
Midwest is one of the few selling cork, it’s what I used, good as any I guess. They also have turnout pads if you feel lazy and don;t want to cut and fit for a turnout.
The ties are for filling in the ones you have to cut when bendign the flex track. You probably don;t need any, if you keep all the ones you cut off. You file the tops to remove the spike and tie plate detail then fill int he gaps so there isn’t an unprototypical big gap with no ties. I’ve never needed to purchase extras, I always have plenty left over.
DOn;t even think about trying to buy just 30 pieces of flex. You WILL use more. Buy a case of 25, much cheaper, and then you have to plan a little, as you won’t need 50 but the next smalelr bulk pack is 5 pieces, and you WILL need more than 30.
Yes you will have to shim the turnouts. Atlas track has thicker ties. Really stuck on the Walther’s turnouts? The Atlas #6 and #8 are evey bit as good. ANd quite a bit cheaper.
Thanks. I’ll go with the Midwest cork, and the Atlas 90 crossings (two, currently out of stock at Walthers but easy enough to find). I’ve got mostly 7-1/2 curved and #5 switches, where I will go with W-S, so I’ll get theirs in the few #6 (two) and #8 (one) as well so I just deal with one type. I did fnd an old post that clarifies the need to shim W-S turnouts with Atlas flex track, about 0.02" as I gather, adjusted with styrene or coated cardboard, etc.
A minor issue, bill unclear on which code 83 nickle silver rail joiners to get when looking at Walthers catalog. I don’t see Atlas code 83 except “transition” ones ($0.33 each) and transition term implies the ($0.07 each) code 100 ones won’t work?? Walthers are $0.24 apiece. Pecos are $0.48 apiece…seriously?? Are there any reasonably priced code 83 N-S joiners?
On a similar note…current Walthers calalog does not show Atlas code 83 flex except single pieces at $6.85. I’ll check their site and elsewhere to see what 5 and 25-pack costs are.
Walthers is not the only supplier of model rail road stuff. Most of the time MB Kline is cheaper than Walthers sale prices! Another option is that most LHS will give you substantial discounts on layout supply orders. My LHS gives me on average 10% more discount than MB Klines prices. With no shipping charges that adds a lot more weight to my wallet.
planning to order the turnouts from Walthers, as I’ve got a 10% coupon atop the current track sale prices, and shipping isn’t too bad. if everything else were available there I’d likely go that way with the 10% off and the minor shipping impact on extra items. I don’t knpow who the others are, having been away for 25 years or so. I should look into the flextrack options and will shop a bit for DCC when I get to that point. any suggestions on favorite vendors with good price, shipping, and overall reliability are welcome. don’t want frustrations to save a couple of $$. LHS is an option but 10% off plus sales tax is 18.2%.
Just forgot. Look into another option besides RTR stuff. Some hand laying options especially turnouts can save you a bundle and you get better quality track work. Its not hard to do and almost as fast as laying flex. On my home layout I use Central Valley tie strips and turnout strips with ME code 70, 55 and an industral spur of code 40 rail in HO. Like I said earlier, I do not use rail joiners at all. I used to make rail bars out of brass strip soldered to the rail web until I found Proto 87 stores nickle silver joint bars in the codes I use. The branch line is on cork road bed that has been sanded smooth and painted flat grey. Then the CV ties are laid down with caulking or white glue. Ballasted and weathered before the rail is laid. Then the rail is glued with Plio Bond adhesive. Joint bars are added soldered to one rail only so the other can expand and contract if needed. So far I have laid down about 130 feet of track and 28 turnouts with lots more to do. My first and last home layout.
Thanks. I looked at hand built turnouts last year (this is a 3rd annual winter design exercise and decided not to make custom turnouts or hand laid track. I understand the extra quality you get but it’s one of those “what’s right for me, this time around”.
Here’s some perspective about my skill level and interests. My first layout (around 1960) was an Atlas 4’x6’ with snap track & switches (from the little blue booklet), expanded to 4’ x 10’ in high school. My 2nd layout, circa 1980, was a 5’ x 10’ with Atlas Customline switches and undertable Atlas switch machines & flex track. I remember mucho derailments, so I didn’t do some things very well! The next, not mine, was a Bachmann set for my grandson, built to a 4’ x 6’ oval, with a couple of turnouts, at his home. On that, I’ve been enyoying building kits and lights, adding a lake, a mountain and tunnel, etc; i.e, things I had not addressed before.
So, this time will represent steps forward like curved turnouts, DCC, completing building and scenery, a turnout control panel, etc. Thus, the leap to hand made tracking is one step beyond this go-round…maybe next time (or next lifetime). DCC seems like a big step in terms of learning and complexity. And it will be fun when to grandkids visit to run the trains and tinker with the pieces (build a building, etc).
Just for background. The input is indeed appreciated so I can consider all the choices. I’m amazed at some ot the accomplishments of those here. One thing I like is everyone’s willingness to share ideas, so thanks again! I’m pretty comfy with the decisions I’m landing upon, but without the insight from this Forum, I’d be throwing darts at the problem instead of making informed choices.
I have been using Atlas N scale Code 80 rail joiners on GT brand HO scale Code 83 track. These tiny joiners fit nice and tight and nearly disappear once the track is painted. I wrapped some electrical tape around a short length of Code 83 rail to make a handle, then filed the exposed rail end into a tapered profile. Before installing each N scale Code 80 joiner, I size both ends by pushing the joiner onto the tapered rail end. I don’t size the middle of the joiner to make sure it holds the rails nice and tight. It is often necessary to file off any burs around the ends of each rail before you install these small joiners but I do that anyway to ensure that the train wheels see a smooth joint. The Atlas rail joiners are also the cheapest out there.
The coupon from Walthers will be eaten up by the extra shipping cost of the 3 foot flex track. The last time I bought rail was from the LHS. 99 feet of three foot code 70 cost $42 with tax to me. No one online with the shipping charge can come close to this. It doesn’t cost anything to talk to them about it. Worth a shot?
I think I’ll go by the LHS tomorrow and have a discussion with them. They’re knowledgeable, helpful and will offer some discount. I’ll pay a bit for that relationship, but not a crazy amount. I bought one 3’ flex piece for a sample and it was very high priced as I remember, not anywhere near your $1.40 or so per piece for sure.
On another note, do y’all recommend sawing the flex rail or buying nippers? If the latter, which nippers and do you just cut & use it or do you need to then file it smooth, etc.
Nippers are the way to go. I still knock off the corners a touch with the file if I am laying rail at the club or the modules. I think the brand is Xzuron.
See what the LHS will do with a large bulk order, but compare also a reputabe dealer like MB Klein, modeltrainstuff.com. I’ve ordered many times from them and when you compare total price with shippign it’s hard to beat their prices. A dollar here, a dollar there, but the confidence that I willg et what I order is worth it vs trying some unknown place. Plus their inventory is true real time - so if the web site syas they have it in stock and you add it to your cart, you willg et it, not a “sorry, this item is backordered” notice like I did from Walthers the one time I ordered direct.
As for rail joiners, Atlas only has one rail joiner for both Code 100 adn Code 83 nickel-silver. Item 170 are what you want.
The best tool for cutting flex track are the Xuron rail nippers. They leave a flat side on one end which needs only minor touchup with a file for a perfectly smooth fit. Don’t cut anything other than track with them, (plastic ties are ok) as the jaws are not hardened and you will ruin them trying to cut somethign harder than nickel silver rail (like piano wire for Tortoises).
I agree about buying extra track, you will miscut a piece there or need small piece to here, the extra will be saved from having to spend the time and gas to the LHS. Also I found the extra I had left over often was the right size or close to it for a siding. If you have a long enough piece, glue it to a 2x4 for use as a coupler high gauge track.
I use the Atlas code 80 N scale joiners too. The Atlas code 100/83 joiners intended for HO are huge and I don’t like how they look. I use a different method for installation - I file a small chamfer onto the end of each flex track rail and the code 80 joiner slips right on. Same principle I guess.
As for ties, I don’t care for adding plastic ties back in under the joiners. I add wood ties from Micro Engineering, which are just a bit shallower so they clear the extra thickness of the joiner, and won’t melt or deform when soldering the joint.
For cutting rail, my favorite tool is a pair of Wiss aircraft shears, available at most hardware stores in my area at least. The easily provide a nice, clean, square cut.
I had a great experience at our LHS. We told him what we were building and how much track we would need and he made us a deal we couldn’t refuse. They should always be able to match or beat the Walthers book. I know in the past when Walthers ran a sale on some rolling stock I was able to get the sale price even though they didn’t mark down those units in the store.
Remember we don’t support our local hobby shops today, they might not be there tomorrow.
I do when I can, but it’s a 40 mile drive to the only good one around. The kicker is when Walthers has a sale in those flyers, they expect the LHS to match the price, even if at the time the shop ordered the item for stock, they may have paid more than the Walthers sale price. Really hard for a shop to live on that. A decent shop should be able to beat Walthers on Atlas track, since they can be an Atlas dealer and order direct and avoid the Walthers markup.
MB Klein, modeltrainstuff.com, is not just an internet retailer, you can go to the place in person and buy stuff (note to self, next weekend when in Timonium I need to stop by there). They were one of the hobby shops that embraced the internet early. Those that refuse to adapt to the changing times will likely perish.