Welcome back on board, Captain_Harley
Welcome back @Captain_Harley
Well at the electrical and plumbing wholesalers they were stocking up either because they were experiencing shortages or they are anticipating shortages. If I was a contractor and my work would grind to a halt because I couldnât get supplies I would be stocking up as well, it seems like a prudent thing to do. I guess time will tell if all those containers from China show up on time or not.
As far as Home Depot and Walmart go, there were way more Washington Plates in the lot than usual. Usually they come to by meds at the Safeway pharmacy and take them back, however, people seemed to be stocking up on a lot of other things as well. I wasnât doing inventory.
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Iâm just curious to know how tariffs for these items are collected at the border crossing coming back into the states.
I can understand the âdo you have anything to declareâ question. What I canât visualize is that the border customs agent would have to look at the box for every item to see where it was produced, and then calculate the proper tariff for each item.
And what do they do if the box says âassembled in xxxxxx using parts made in xxxxxx, yyyyyy, and zzzzzâ?
OK fine.
You claim the âElectrical and Plumbing Wholesalers are âexperiencing shortagesâ or are âAnticipating
Shortagesâ,
Of What?
If youâre making a claim to facts, then be specific to those facts.
Iâve got you, hopefully most everybody else here does as well.
I donât know how it works going South but when we bring stuff into Canada we have to go into the office and they scan the barcodes and you get and pay your bill. Tax and/or tariffs.
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I am guessing things like plugs, outlets, wire, pipe and a lot of other things. I just bought a length of 1/2" copper pipe that clearly says made in China on it. Next time you go to Home Depot see how much of that stuff in made in China.
Frankly I donât care one way or another, it is either fake news or not.
The third Thursday of every month three bus loads of old geezers come up from the U.S. go into the walk-in clinic, get prescriptions from the Doctor walk over to Safeway and get them filled and make the three mile trip back to the U.S. with their cheap meds. A family member manages that Safeway and co-ordinates with the walk-in clinic for that invasion. Are medications cheaper in Canada or not, the fake news keeps saying they are but I guess all these seniors are getting sucked in to these North of the border day trips for their imaginary cheap drugs.
I have never seen a gas shortage in Canada in my 68 years but the fake news shows that they sometimes happen in the U.S. by showing long line-ups.
I watch the BBC and CBC for news, I will try and figure out what the fake stuff is.
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Yes, China is a major manufacturer of electrical switches, including wall switch sockets. In fact, China is the worldâs leading manufacturer of these types of switches. Companies like Gateron, based in China, also specialize in manufacturing various types of switches for electronics and other applications.
AI Overview
Yes, wire is commonly manufactured in China. China is a major exporter of various types of wire, including copper wire, electrical wire, and steel wire. Chinaâs wire production includes communication cables, power wires, coaxial cables, and instrument wires, among others. The Observatory of Economic Complexity reports that China exported $1.49 billion of copper wire in 2024, with the Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, India, and South Korea being the main destinations.
- China Steel Wire, Steel Wire Wholesale, Manufacturers, Price
0.5mm-8.0mm Stainless Steel Bright No-Bright Matte Foggy Soft MID-Hard Spring Welding Razor Galvanized Barbed Round Metal Wire *
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- Made in China - Wikipedia
Made in China or Made in PRC is a country of origin label, often in English, affixed to products wholly or partially made in the PâŚ
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Wikipedia
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- Copper Wire in China Trade - OEC World
Exports. In 2024, China exported $1.49B of Copper Wire, being the 352nd most exported product (out of 1,211) in China. In 2024, thâŚ
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OEC World
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- Show all
Yes, conduit is commonly made in China. China has a large and diverse manufacturing industry, including a wide range of electrical conduit types. Chinese manufacturers produce various types of conduit, like flexible metal conduit (FMC), rigid metal conduit (RMC), and PVC conduit. Additionally, they offer a wide variety of conduit fittings and connectors, and are known for competitive pricing and accommodating both small and large order quantities.
AI Overview
Yes, electrical breakers, including various types like 220V circuit breakers and miniature circuit breakers, are manufactured in China. Many Chinese companies are known for producing these devices, and some even specialize in specific types like outdoor SF6 circuit breakers.
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Americans crossing the border for drugs is nothing new nor does it have anything to do with the new imposed tariffs. Thatâs been happening for decades.
As far as gasoline goes, thatâs not imported from china that Iâm aware of.
You allege people are crossing the border in âdrovesâ to purchase goods not available here.
âFake newsâ is what youâre posting on this forum.
While Iâm not disputing any of those particular claims, I never quote Googleâs AI Overview in support of arguments because I have quite often found it to be wrong.
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Atlas isnât a manufacturer. Kato? Bachman?
Scale Trains? Walthers is a lot of things but they are also a manufacturer. Rapido? Sure Broadway Imports has import right in the name but that doesnât mean they didnât design and specify and have built specifically for them the item they import.
I can agree to a tiny degree that there are other options than importing from China. But to say these are not manufacturers is plain false and shows at best you havenât really given this much thought or paid attention to any of the videos both recent and in the past from several of these manufacturers about the work and effort they put into designing these products.
Will the industry up and vanish? Doubtful but some of these manufacturers may and they all will probably have to slow down development of future products at best.
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If the manufacturer is in the USA and they have their products made in China then all the items have to first be imported to the USA even if they might then sell that product to someone in the EU. The only way around that would be if they were large enough that they have international distribution. Meaning their products are made in china and then they have distribution deals with say another company in the EU to sell their products to the EU market. But how many model RR manufacturers have that large of scale to have that buisness model? I doubt many of them would but I could be wrong. I know that is how some other buisnesses plan to survive. They used to have good manufactured in China for the US market. But they may just start to sell internationally so they can sell the products that they have sitting in a wharehouse in China currently because they canât afford the import tarriff. They literally donât have the capitol. So the US market will losse what might have been a fairly unique product. That assumes the buisness doesnât go under while they try to pivot to international sales.
Short version, itâs complicated and most of these buisnesses are too small to pivot quickly.
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No, that just shows you donât understand what the word âmanufactureâ means. âManufactureâ is the fabrication of the product, not the development or design of it. Check your dictionary.
The question being discussed was manufacturing. My career was spent both as a design and a manufacturing engineer, so I know of what I speak.
I donât think anybody has tried to claim that any of these companies havenât had items specifically built for them to import. Certainly they do. But these companies donât own factories; they donât build product. So by definition they are not manufacturers.
The one exception is Kato. They are a manufacturer, and I should have singled them out as the exception to my statement that the companies represented in the video arenât manufacturers. My bad. Beyond thatâŚ
What does Walthers still make in their own factories? Please provide an example. To my knowledge, everything they sell, even their own brands, are made by third part fabricators. IF they actually do make product in facilities they own and control, then Iâll stand corrected on them too.
To recap, designing a product and then stocking it in a warehouse and selling it to the end user is very different than actually manufacturing it.
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If the product is being made by their people in their factory, regardless of where their headquarters or their factory are located, then by definition they are the manufacturer.
If, on the other hand, the product is being made by a third party, they are not the manufacturer. They are BUYING the product from the manufacturer, then reselling it (hopefully at a fair profit so they can do it again with another product).
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OK, fair, your definition may be technically accurate. But then by your definition Apple probably wouldnât be a manufacturer. Weâll just have to agree to disagree on what defines the term manufacturer. Your definition is pretty damn narrow and, in my book, obfuscating the actual debate about the tariffs.
To me if you develop the product, design the product, own the IP of the product, youâre the manufacturer. Just because you donât own and personally operate the site where the product is made in the grand scheme of things makes no difference. And most importantly it makes zero difference in the debate over tariffs. Even if all of these manufacturers owned and operated their factories in China they would still have to pay the same tariffs because it would still be an import either way. So to this conversation your definition is basically a moot point.
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Apple really isnât a manufacturer; itâs a marketer.
The Monorail Computer Companyâs business model was interesting: they would take custom orders for systems, and when a suitable minimum-order quantity was received, they would have a contract manufacturer (Solectron IIRC) build the systems and ship them to the orderers (either computer stores or end-users). The interesting thing was that fulfillment was well inside net-30, so Monorail didnât actually need high capitalization (or business-interruption insurance) and all the costs and coverage of the units were handled by the manufacturer and end client. This enabled easy customization and very rapid line changes or improvements to cover changes in the industry, with zero finished inventory or worries about unsold returns.
The only customer contact, or brand name involved, was Monorail.
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Thatâs an interesting point. Does Apple own their own factories, or do they have 3rd party manufacturers fabricate their products?
But itâs not MY definition - thatâs the meaning of the word manufacture. Hereâs a link to the definition in the Merriam Webster on-line dictionary.
Then I guess this discussion is over. When you make up your own meanings for words itâs impossible to have a coherent conversation.
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Pruitt, Iâm fine with saying, OK, by the text book definition and maybe itâs by the legal definition as well (thatâs probably another whole ball of wax) that most of these companies are not manufacturers. But maybe we could agree to call them producers? They are certainly far more than just an importer. To me the term importer means I go and get an existing product and I buy them and bring them into the USA for example. Just to play the game, here is a link to the definition of import.
IMPORTER Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
That seems like an awful simplification of what most of these companies do, wouldnât you agree? If not, then I think you are correct. Weâll just have to agree to disagree.
Here is an example. I would say in years past Walthers used to import Shinohara track and maybe they would put it in a Walthers package. But really they were just buying an existing product, putting their name on it (and behind it) and reselling it. It was essentially a distribution deal. But then Shinohara closed up shop. And while their current track maybe based heavily off that previously imported product, they themselves are now doing all the design work and putting forth all the capitol to have the products manufactured. If they hadnât done this, the product would not exist. I couldnât start up my own business importing Shinohara track, because itâs a product that doesnât exist any longer. (I am making some assumptions here just for the sake of example, I donât really know all the current development procedures for Walthers track, nor all the history, so forgive me if I my assumptions are wrong, it is just for the sake of an example)
Having said that, the main point is the part you seem to be skimming around. No matter what word either of us think these companies should be referred to by, the end result is the same. There are some pretty major companies in this hobby that develop (can we agree to that term?) and create products, many of which are pretty popular, that will be affected by these tariffs. Are they the âentire industryâ? No of course not. But they are some pretty damn big major players in the industry. If these companies were to go away all the development and investment into those products will also disappear. Again itâs not like someone with deaper pockets can just go over to China and buy the same products and import them all on their own. Iâm sure some factory would be happy to build them, but unless they go to a factory that is disreputable and is willing to steal the IP for these products, the new importer (to use your term) would have to put in a lot of work to recreate them all. Maybe they hold little value to you but that doesnât mean it wouldnât be a significant blow to the industry. For those of us that have their layouts all built or mostly built and decades of rolling stock already taking up lots of space itâs probably not all that big of a deal. But for those who donât have all those years of purchases behind them or are just getting started it could in fact be a big deal. Iâm glad we have manufacturers like Accurail as well and I prefer kits myself. But they donât produce any locomotives (to the best of my knowledge). Sure there are some US based locomotive manufacturers. (Bowser I believe?) But itâs not like they are just going to expand in short order and fill in the gaps. That would take an enormoous financial investment, not to mention the time. Iâm sure you understand that if itâs your background. Probably better than I. What happens in the mean time then? We just go without? Or do we all pay 2 or 3 times as much for a locomotive? That sure seems pretty stupid to me. And most importantly there were not a bunch of jobs that were lost in the manufacturing of most of these products. As the owners of these companies have said, for the most part none of this was ever done in the US. And like it or not many probably donât want to go back to an Athearn Blue Box quality locomotive. Even if several of my favorite pieces in my collection are just that.
Have you taken the time to watch the David Popp interview with the CEO of Walthers? In that video Stacey Walthers Naffah explains this actually will hurt some US based manufacturing as well. Some of the DCC decoders are produced right here in the USA. They are then sent over to China to be installed inside locomotives being produced over there and then they are returned back into the US by these producing companies. That probably creates a double whammy, tariffed on its way into China and then again on its way back to a US based company for sale.
No matter what terminology you want to use, itâs not nearly as simple as you make it out to be in your original post.
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I have scratch built structures, but no, I did not grow the trees or mill the wood. Did I make it or not?
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If I build a factory and fill it with equipment to build my own brand widgets and have a staff of 50. I didnât make the widgets my employees did.
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