I’ve searched here on the subject and only got three hits, maybe I’m using the wrong terms.
I have five new locomotives, two Model Power RTR 2-8-0’s and three MDC kits, a 2-8-0 and two 2-6-0’s, all old timers, none with elegant engineering. I want them to run like Katos, quiet, smooth and precise, and to accompli***hat it’s clear they’ll need to be repowered and re-geared, which brings up some general and some specific questions. All use plastic gears, a direct drive shaft to the worm gear, open frame motors, no U-joints to isolate vibration and noise.
Additionally, I eventually need a two truck Shay, which will either be an MDC or Keystone, both of which will also probably need regeared and re-powered to perform up to specs.
This week looks full of wiring and track tuning, next week will be foam laying, and then I need to look into getting my motive power up and running, so now is a good time to begin research.
First off, are there any well done How-to’s online?
What websites do I need to have bookmarked to learn and to find out what motors and gears are available?
How do I know what gear ratios I have now, so I know what to buy to replace them? How much of a range will avoid a locomotive that either crawls or flies off the layout?
What major and minor tools do I need before I engage on this project? I have a well stocked woodshop, and a medium well stocked hobby shop, but as for strictly metal working equipment, I’m a complete neophyte. I have a drill press, and some milling bits for the Moto-tool, but no lathe, no milling machine, no bandsaw, no tap and die kit, etc. What about measuring tools? I have a micrometer good to 0.001", and rulers and that’s it. Do I need calipers? Laser nanometers? What all needs to be measured and how precise do you need to be doing it? I’ve got an index of high speed bits, but the step size is 1/32", not 1/64" and a few are missing. Should I replace the missing ones or do I also
I’ve searched here on the subject and only got three hits, maybe I’m using the wrong terms.
I have five new locomotives, two Model Power RTR 2-8-0’s and three MDC kits, a 2-8-0 and two 2-6-0’s, all old timers, none with elegant engineering. I want them to run like Katos, quiet, smooth and precise, and to accompli***hat it’s clear they’ll need to be repowered and re-geared, which brings up some general and some specific questions. All use plastic gears, a direct drive shaft to the worm gear, open frame motors, no U-joints to isolate vibration and noise.
Additionally, I eventually need a two truck Shay, which will either be an MDC or Keystone, both of which will also probably need regeared and re-powered to perform up to specs.
This week looks full of wiring and track tuning, next week will be foam laying, and then I need to look into getting my motive power up and running, so now is a good time to begin research.
First off, are there any well done How-to’s online?
What websites do I need to have bookmarked to learn and to find out what motors and gears are available?
How do I know what gear ratios I have now, so I know what to buy to replace them? How much of a range will avoid a locomotive that either crawls or flies off the layout?
What major and minor tools do I need before I engage on this project? I have a well stocked woodshop, and a medium well stocked hobby shop, but as for strictly metal working equipment, I’m a complete neophyte. I have a drill press, and some milling bits for the Moto-tool, but no lathe, no milling machine, no bandsaw, no tap and die kit, etc. What about measuring tools? I have a micrometer good to 0.001", and rulers and that’s it. Do I need calipers? Laser nanometers? What all needs to be measured and how precise do you need to be doing it? I’ve got an index of high speed bits, but the step size is 1/32", not 1/64" and
Forgot to mention that there was an article in the May, 2002, issue of MR on regearing an MDC 2-8-0. While that loco was the “Harriman”, much of the information could be used on the old-timer. Article is on pages 60-63.
Article also showed the technique of making a “witness” mark on the insulated wheel and axle so you can reassemble the wheel back on the axle and keep it quartered, all without having to use the NWSL Quarterer.
Good post. I have a bunch I need to regear/remotor.
Let me know how you do with the NWSL site. I couldn’t make heads or tails out of it. I emailed them and asked them for information and, no joke, they just copied the page from the Internet and included it in the email. I couldn’t understand it on the Internet nor the email, so I posted the my email and the reply and not one person could figure out what I needed from the email.
The catalog is confusing; I like to use the brochures. Here is a link to the motor brochure: http://nwsl.com/Brochure%20Pages/broch%20160009%20Motor.htm The 2 most common motors for use in HO steam are the 16mm and 20mm diameter motors. I like the 20328-9 motor. The 16k rpm seems about right for the Mantua Mikado I installed it in. I used a couple of Timewell flywheels. They are out of stock of this motor right now, unfortunately.
Sounds like you have the Prairie. The 2032 motor will probably not fit the smaller Mantuas. In the one I did, I had to grind some to get it to fit. The Mikado is a much larger boiler. You are better off with the 1630. Pull the boiler and measure the width. The 16309-9 is in stock. Before you buy, I would post a message asking for a Sagami motor recommendation for your 2-6-2. I am sure someone has actually done one as that was a very common engine.
Space mouse type in “Helix Humper” in a serch on google or Yahoo, they make the best remotor regear for the Matuas. I have put these on many of the 4-6-2 and some other Mantua’s. The motor and idler gear with extra large worm and flywheel sit in a motor mount cradle. You will gave to do a bit of grinding inside the boiler to make it fit. It is worth it though, the kit cost about $55 now. It will make you older Matua run like a quiet running P2K.
Jeff The Keystone Shay you are considering is a difficult kit to build and motor, the loco comes with no motor kit but NWSL does make a powering kit for it. I have been working on my Keystone for about a month now, it is a slow go. You seem interested in building your own and thats great, I would stay with the MDC kits the. NWSL should give you all the info you need to regear and remotor. There site is hard to make heads or tales of, but you have to comb through it to find your info you need with pics and drawings.
Some of the tools you need is a set od/id digital calipars, drill bits in mm, and a good micrometer to measure thickness, and small taps. I could spend an hour writing down other tools, but since you are building and remotoring that should do. Don’t forget to get a jewlers file set and a good Dremel and bit set, these come in handy when building MDC kits.
Sounds like you got allot of heart and soul, so good luck to you on the builds and regearing, keep us up to date when you get to building. Wish I could talk to you face to face in my shop, would be easier.
Spacemouse, I’m only up to the tool section in the NWSL manual/catalog, but so far it makes sense ok. If it goes squirrley on me, well, Andre posted some links to how-to’s and Soo Line pointed up the motor guides, hopefully they are easier to understand.
ICRR1964, thanks for the heads up on the Shay, I’ll look more for the MDC kit. It’s not that critical, the railroad bought one, let a sister road use it for a while, tried it out at home and almost immediately swapped it for a Baldwin because it was so slow. I have a Spectrum for general illustrative purposes, and plan to concentrate on the Baldwins as they were used almost exclusively.
We aren’t very far apart, I’m in west/central Indiana, and come across I-70 heading for Denver two or three times a year. My e-mail is jeff4303ATyahooDOTcom if you want to talk more about kit building and bashing.
I want to get more involved in precision metalworking and machining. It’s something that’s always interested me and in addition to helping with model railroading, this and a plastics molding/machining shop will help complete some other projects I have in mind.
Cool stuff. I’m modeling SP with the 2-8-0 but in 1885. The Praries will be 1917.
However, I do need to convert all my steamers to oil. I’m surprized that no one seems to make an oil tender for anything. That article might help me there.
drills: # 61 thru #80 and #31 thru #60
digital caliper very useful, Harbor Frieght is good enough
taps & dies: #00-90, #0-80, #1-72, #2-56, #3-48 and #4-40
swiss type files
pin vise
little clamps
bench vise
drill press for your moto tool
It helped me to understand it when I had the kit’s underframe and mechanism assembly instructions handy when reading the NWSL discussion. The left column applies to MDC Shay kits, and the right applies to MDC kits generally.
The information matches what I see on my 1976 2-8-0 kit, which corresponds to the NWSL Phase II discussion. I deciphered the kit’s age from the bottom of some of the instruction sheets, where they list revision dates.
The information does not match my 2-6-0 kits which were issued after 1998, per revision info. The NWSL discussion mentions frame holes rearward of the drive gear bearing slot, for the idler gear bearing shaft, while the 2-6-0 frame only has holes well forward of the driver slot for the idler or compound (larger gear mated to a smaller gear) gear bearing shaft.
The NWSL article also recommends the MR article posted by Andre above as being a good source of info. Finally, they say the motors used in the kits are high quality Sagumi open frames, imply that they do not need to be replaced, but do offer a replacement in a can style moter if desired. This last info may apply only to the Shay, it’s hard to tell from the NWSL article. I know the two 2-6-0 kits have single flywheel open frame motors while the older 2-8-0 kit motor has no flywheel and a rougher end on the worm.
I think I’m going to continue to research this, as I’m sure the Model Power 2-8-0’s need new gears, motors, or both, as they are balky and noisy, but right now I plan to assemble the MDC kits with the supplied parts and see how they perform before deciding what to improve.
Interesting. The 0-6-0 I have do seem to be of high quality and when I tested them they seem to pull less than 1 amp, so maybe I should just think in terms of re-gearing. The 2-8-0 I have not tested as I just got it in trade.
Nfmisso, thanks for all the links. I copied down your tool recommendations and have located many of them already. I don’t have a lathe, or a place to put one, but realistically, this project may take a year or more to complete, and by then, space for a machine shop won’t be so much of a problem.
How do Sagumi motors rate in comparison with NWSL, Alliance, and Mashima?
Two things I haven’t seen mentioned here (forgive if they were)…
First, You may be able to have those drivers nickel plated… There’s a guy who does it for $5 per axle. Write me offline and I’ll forward you his email address.
Second, The NWSL universals, in my experience have been known to slip, even on NWSL motor shafts… They are tight fitting going on and with gentle force can’t be moved but after a little excersise unless everything is lined up dead on, they Will move… Again, in my experience. I’ve found RC Airplane fuel line to be the best universal coupling out there.
Ideally, you want the motor shaft and the gear tower shaft to be in perfect alignment. It won’t always be possible but that’s what your goal should be.
As for motors, I’ve bought several and the best ones I’ve found were Cannon motors I found on ebay for $5 each… I’ve also bought mashima but I can’t say I liked them very much… A little weak and stall very easily under load… Sagami, NWSL, okay if you want to pay the money…
A lathe would be nice to have but isn’t a necessity… In addition to Bowser for a source of drivers, look at Greenway Products