Can anybody tell me if any coal mining companies ever build flood loaders directly over a mainline track? [And not just some dead-end mountain branch, but a regular line with two-way traffic.] Or do they always use passing sidings? With today’s coal trains of 150+ cars, I would think you’d need more than a mile of track on either side of it…
I believe because trains would go about 2-4 miles per hour maximum when loading it would tie up a mainine too long preventing the flow of mainline trains like passenger trains or other coal runs On branchlines where usualy only 1 train a day ran threw it may have been possible but generally the coal flow was low and generally a siding was constructyed so the evening local or next days train could pick up teh loaded cars but on a heavily used mainline I think it is most likely that their would not be a flood loader over a main
Yes, this is the one issue I have on my layout. 3 branches serving two flood loaders but each branch can only handle 4-5 cars at a time. Makes for fun switching but not as realistic as 100+ car trains.
also, I think those big coal runs you see are of Trains made up of cars from multiple mines, Like a switcher would pic up empty it set off at the mine the other day and picks up loadeds then tthen all the loadeds are dropped off in the yard, some big power pics up the cars and takes em east and teh siwtcher takes the emptys and swaps em out again I could be totally wrong but its hard to believe 100+ cas oming froma single mine and with so many coal trains a day thats relatively impossible
i have never seen a flood coal loader in operation usualy what is the cycle time for a car ?
Believe me, Podnuh, in the Powder River country in Wyoming it isn’t impossible! Quite the opposite! The flood loader on a loop at the Black Thunder Mine loads several 18,000 ton trains a day, with the locos creeping along at a crawl. So do the other major Powder River mines.
To put that in perspective, they are strip-mining a seam 70 feet thick. The “cast shots” fired every two weeks or so to break up the overburden down to the top of the coal routinely register on seismographs around the world. The only thing that differentiates them from nuclear tests is that the multi-kiloton total charge (of ANFO) is set off in echelon delay.
Chuck
The flood loaders run 100+ car trains at a steady 4 mph under the flood loader. The branch consists of a loop with on side going from the mainline under the flood loader, around the loop and back out to the mainline. The train never stops. That is how they do it in the powder river basin.
Just a few facts:
Black Thunder Mine has the capability to store 126,000 tons of coal at its rail loading point. That’s about ten unit trains.
Per day, they can produce around 195,000 tons of coal. Its silos can dump 12,000 tons of coal per hour into railcars divided over two loops (6000 tons per loop per hour). Recharge rate to fill the facility up again is also 12,000 tons per hour.
(Source: UP Website)
So as you can see from the numbers, quite a few unit trains can be loaded at Black Thunder.
As for other facilities in the PRB, some have equal capacities (like the North Antelope / Rochelle complex), some have less, but together (10 mines on the Orin) they can certainly make for a busy mainline.
Thanks alot everybody for your input!
I was afraid that having the floodloader directly over the main line wouldn’t be prototypically correct, for the reasons specified. But I do have a parallel switching ‘branchline’ that also doubles as a passing siding. Theoretically, such a track doesn’t see anywhere near as much activity as a main line, so tying it up with an occassional coal train wouldn’t be a major issue - right? I just don’t know if the presence of the nearby industrial spurs would look kind of weird [see diagram below, flood loader location marked in blue]:
In any event, replacing my existing New River-style coal mine with a flood loader could help me gain an entire new ‘town’ with a small yard - I really hope I can make this work!
Remember that flood loaders are often far from the actual mine itself. So in regard to your other industry, I’d say as long as you dont model the area as a urban industrial area, it shouldn’t be a problem to have the loader close to the other industry. You could even pass one of the spurs as a material track for the mine. Most PRB mines have such a spur somewhere along the loading loop. You could spot all sorts of freight there, from diesel for the dump trucks to construction equipment without being un-prototypical.[tup]
Just act as if the mine that’s feeding the loader is further away off the layout.
My [2c]
Is there a book or web resource somewhere that explains how the railroad operations work at a mine? Does the New River Mine kit come with some prototypical tips? I really like the idea of putting a mine on the layout for the scenic and operational aspects of it. This has been a good discussion so far, but I’m in the planning stages for a new layout and I’d like to come up with something somewhat prototypical for the mine.
Thanx Sarge! I actually came up with an even better plan after my earlier post. (I’ll include the drawings later, can’t do that right now because I am at work…)
Skil, I don’t remember seeing anything beyond assembly diagrams in my own New River kit. As for a book about the industry, I’m sure somebody has written a few - but I couldn’t find any in my Google searches. I also seem to remember a Yahoo newsgroup focusing on the the mining industry.
Perhaps this would be a good topic for an MR article in the future??? Come to think of it, they must have done this before. Anyone?
Pentrex’s DVD on King Coal (the combo with Powder River Coal is well worth the look) shows trains being loaded from inside the control station at Black Thunder Mine. It takes about 15 seconds to load a car as they move through the flood loader. 2 different chutes in the video. Front half, then back half. Train never stops. Tracks are a giant circle through the loader. One right after another.
Skiloff FYI - Here is a link to that coal mining Yahoo group I mentioned earlier:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BlackDiamond/
I think you’ll need to join to view/participate. Read their intro paragraph (esp. the last sentence), looks like a perfect fit to me![:)]
I know of at least one such loader built directly on the main. It’s located on the NS, Cumberland Valley Division on the line between Big Stone Gap/Appalachia and Norton.
It’s a relatively new structure, put up in maybe the last 5-10 years I think. I don’t remember it being there on one railfan trip to the area, and then it was there the next time (About two years later). I have a slide someplace of the loader, but no way to get it on here. Somebody on here might be familiar with this loader and could maybe get a shot of it for you. It is right next to the road that runs between Appalachia and Norton, the conveyor from the mine runs right across the road.
I also don’t remember the name of the coal company that runs it, sorry.
If you’re looking for inspiration for loaders, that area is fantastic. There is every type of loadout operation you can think of in that area, form the smallest mom and pop to the unit trains loaders. And they are all pretty much accessible from public property and public raods.
I’ve taken slides of all of them, but since I just switched to digital this year, I only have some quick shots of a few.
Thanks, CSX. I’ll check that out tomorrow evening.
Mike, thats great news, thanx for sharing it! Maybe I’ll hold off on redrawing my track plan just yet…
Remember though that the flood loader has the chutes sticking down. Taller cars like high cubes and double stacks will not go through the flood loader with the chutes down.
My uncle is in the coal business (buys and sells coal and is contracted to move it) and works closely with NS and CSX (ex conrail exec before the merger). I’ll ask him about how they work with the flood loaders as I need one on my layout too! I remember him telling me they [Conrail] would use sometimes up to 150+ hoppers at a time pulled by a few SD-40’s (two in front, one in back for braking through the Appalacians. I’ll email him and tell you what I find out.