hello all experienced scratchbuilders/kitbashers and/or knowlegeble modellers.
i am thinking of diong a small kitbash on an IHC mountain (presedent’s choice bullet nosed betty #6060). I would like to change the driving wheels so that they are the correct size. since i have enver done anything like this before need to find a source for these wheels. If is anybody out there who could help me out with this i would gratly appreciate it
They have Boxpox drivers that are shown as “out of stock” right now in 70.5" diameter. I know you asked about 73" size, but prototypical loco wheel diameters are nominal - when the tire wears, the wheels are turned down on a lathe to restore the correct profile, and there is usually a few inches of meat on the tire before the tire has to be replaced.
Now - I don’t know what the original driver size is on the IHC mountain, so you will have to be careful about the height of the loco - obviously if you put bigger drivers on it will sit higher, leading to coupler problems and no doubt a strange looking loco!
thank you so much Eddie. it looks like a set of those drivers would be a decent representation of the prototype’s wheels. However, i do have a question: would white-walling the wheels be as simple as paiting the outer rim of the wheels? As for the engine looking weird, well… fixing that is what kitbashing is all about
Back to your original question of changing the drivers to the correct size, there’s several things you need to consider. First, the flange on the model driver is not a scale reduction of the prototype flange depth, they’re much larger, which is why most models have a slightly smaller diameter driver than the scale size of the prototype, to compensate for the larger flange. Second is driver spacing. will there be enough room between the axle slots for the new drivers? Third is clearance. Will you need to do work to the body of the locomotive so the drivers clear? Fourth, will you be able to remove the axle gear (to the motor) and install it on the new drivers, or make up your own drive train? Fifth would be the side rods and valve gear.
With a drive wheel change, you’ll be working on the operating mechanism as well as the apperance of the loco. Making some measurements and calculations as above can tell you if the conversion would even be doable before spending the money on the parts and model to modify.
Another “problem” to look for, other than what Tom said, is axle diameter. Several steam makers use an axle diameter greater than what has been considered the “nominal” diameter. Since you want to replace the wheels, will you also need new axles? Will you also need new bearings? If not, will the axles fit in a quartering jig to set the quarter from one side to the other? Again, if not, then you will need to build or buy a quartering jig just for that set of wheels.
Since you need to ask such questions, it seems you may be over your head. The President’s Choice engines are relatively low cost models (I have several), and may not be suitable for such wheel changes. As has been mentioned, properly quartering the drivers if and when new ones are installed is quite a science, with a special tool needed.
What about removing the connecting rods from the existing wheels? Replacing them in the new ones - will the holes be the same size, and if not, how would you handle it? Will the connecting rods still work on smaller wheels, since the distances may be different? These engines are operated through gears on one of the axles. Will you be able to remove the gear and reinstall in properly on the new axles? How to keep in on the axle?
Many, many questions! Hope you have more than one of the models in case things don’t work out well. I chose to accept mine as a semi close representative, and would not ever think of trying to change the drivers. But that’s what makes the hobby fun - hope you have fun doing it!
Andy, the last two posters have hinted at the situation but I’ll come right out and say it. You indicate that you’ve never attempted anything like this before. Be advised that this is no simple kitbash. It is a major project worthy of an experienced craftsman. This is especially true when one considers all the possible adaptations/fabrications likely to be necessary to get the model back to running, as well as the specialized tools required for the process (wheel pullers, quartering jigs, etc.). It is certainly not a matter of popping one set of wheels off the model and slapping another on.
My advice, if you truly wish to proceed, would be to try your hand at it with a couple of old “junkers” you might have around before attempting it on a nice model
thanks all for your advice. after reading these post i realized how much i would be overshooting to try and change the drivers on this loco. i would probably end up screwing the whole thing up. I think ill keep this plan in mind for another day. thanks again everyone for your support!
To look at this from a different angle. If you enjoy this type of work and want to learn how to do it, you have to start somewhere. Better to start with a cheaper loco than a $500 brass one.
All it takes is patients, money and the right parts and tools.[2c]
I did something like this on a Mantua Pacific. I replaced the stock Boxpox drivers with spoked drivers to match a Boston & Maine P4, which had spoked drivers. I was able to order replacement driver wheel sets (two wheels on an axle) from Mantua. One driver wheel set came with the necessary spur gear. With replacement wheel sets in hand the change over is straight forward. Remove the screws securing the drive rods, remove the screws holding the “axle retainer” in place, swap out the wheel sets, and re assemble. You don’t have to take the valve gear apart.
Couple of things to be aware of.
Model wheel flanges, even RP25 flanges, are larger than prototype. To avoid driver flanges rubbing on each other, model steam engines either have slightly small drivers or spread the drive axles out a little bit by making the driver axle centers larger than prototype. If the drivers are within 5 or 10 perce
I agree with what others have said: this is not a good choice for your first kitbashing project. If you’re a big fan of CNR steam, why not try adding an Elesco feedwater heating system to an existing model, as this was one of that road’s favourite appliances. There are other detail changes that you can make to give almost any loco a CNR-appearance, too, such as headlights, handrails, and cabs.
Here’s a CNR S-3-a Mikado that started life as an Athearn USRA Mike. I did this one for a friend.
This was a brass model of a CNR S-2-a, to which I added the Elesco system, plus a few minor detail changes. Also done for the same friend.
I built this one for myself, starting with a Proto USRA 0-8-0 and turning it into a CNR P-5-h. I rebuilt and lengthened the frame, moved the running boards, and completely re-piped the entire loco, along with some other detail changes. I also added enough weight to double its pulling power.
The skills that you learn doing these simpler jobs, not to mention the tools that you’ll acquire as you find need for them, will stand you in good stead when it comes time to tackle a major rebuild such as the one that you suggested.
My post wasn’t meant to discourage you from trying a kitbash, it was to point out some of the things you need to consider in the planning stages. Detailed planning can eliminate a good percentage of the pitfalls. Remember, all of us were inexperienced at one time or another. This is the way you get experience.
