A Rant - Detail and the 3-Foot Rule

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

This morning, after several frustrating evenings characterized by multiple muted outbursts of profanity, I finished working on my first Branchline Blueprint-series kit, an NKP 40’ reefer. The plastic kit came with many fine details. Unfortuntely, a number of those fine details didn’t end up on the model. Some broke as I worked to gently cut them from the sprue. Others sprang away from my tweezers with a kinetic enery belying their diminutive size, ending up in some unseen lost parallel dimension. The parts surviving thus far had small pins, which aligned very nicely with little holes on the car body. But the pins had a very snug fit in the holes - still more pieces broke under my patient efforts to coax them into place.

Finally the car was finished, minus the roof corner grabs, a cut lever, and some underbody details. Still a fine model that looks nice in spite of my oafish modeling skills. I placed it on my layout with a mix of accomplishment and relief and admired it for a few moments. Then, I took a step back, to about where I’d be when running trains.

At that point I grabbed a 36’ boxcar that had been culled from an ancient Roundhouse 3-in-1 kit, coupled it to my newest roster addition, and took a step back. The detail on the Branchline car largely disappeared. I found myself noticing mostly the overall form of the cars, rather than the individually-applied grab irons and ladders.

I’ll post pictures down the road. But based on that experience, I feel much better about my fleet of mostly Blue Box and Roundhouse rolling stock. The detail difference from practical viewing distances as a moving train passes by is not noticeable, at least to these declining middle-aged eyeballs.

Jim

2

Jim,I can relate…I prefer my locomotives to be lightly detailed with the more important items like m u hoses,radio antennas and sun shades if applicable-like this:

I prefer cars like Athearn RTR,Atlas TrainMan,AccuRail,ExactRail (Evolution Series),Walthers and if needed the Atlas tank cars.

I lost my long time love affair with Athearn’s older BB line of cars.

3

wait till you get to be over 60.

4

Being over 60, I have come up with some adaptations. De-spru tiny parts inside a gallon baggie. They still get away, but not far. Figure on replacing lots of grab with brass wire…you’re going to break them handling the car, if not on installing them. I’ve had problems with Branchline parts fitting, get some of those tiny reamers from Micro-Mark. And, with older eyes, you’re not going to be able to see the problems anyway.

MF

5

This may get me in trouble, but here goes.

First, everyone should enjoy this hobby however they like and to whatever standards suit them.

That said, fine model building is simply not for everyone. Some people do not possess the skill set, and/or are not interested in developing the skill set. That’s fine.

That is way there is all manner of RTR and shake the box kits - expensive high detail or “three foot rule” close enough.

It is interesting that it seems the “craftsman kit building” crowd use to be the group considered a little “snobby” in this hobby. That gorup has both shrunk and lost a lot of that “snobby” image.

Now it seems the group with “snobby” image is the high end ready run, blue box cars are not good enough, but I don’t have time to build kits, crowd.

Well, I still build kits of ALL levels and materials, and I have fair share of finely detailed models and I don’t have any problems building those fine details or handling them once they are on the layout.

BUT, I also have lots of “three foot rule” cars, kit and RTR, and I’m just fine with that. They are not “stand ins” until better cars are built or bought.

What I only have a very limited number of are these $40-$80 high end RTR marvels. In most cases I simply will not pay those prices - plus it more fun to build something than just buy it.

So to the OP I say fine, buy, build and run what ever suits your skills, interest and budget.

Just don’t blame that kit, because for those of us who are into that kind of thing, those kits are fantastic.

Sheldon

6

mononguy63, I don’t know about how things are in the more primitive regions of the country wherein you dwell but out here in the 100 plus degree Desert Southwest we have these things they call plastic bags. Utilizing the one gallon variety ----- they are also made in two gallon sizes although these are sometimes just a little hard to find ----- try doing your work with your model ----- as well as your hands and tools ----- inside and you’ll become absolutely amazed at how few parts disappear when they slip from the grasp of your tweezers.

7

Hello;

I have built a few of these cars and I find that the corner grabs are easley broken. I get everything else of the sprues with no problem. Drilling out the small holes is a must because of the tight fit. My last car I broke both corner grabs which I am going to replace with brass wire ones. I have 2 Westerfield cars and these scare the begevvers out of me, so I bought there DVD on how to assemble there kits and it was very informative not only for there cars but any car with alot of added detail. My secret weapon to use when I attempt to build these cars is to have a couple of cans of the fruit of the barley, which seems to help.

Bill

8

The first experience with a finer detailed kit liek Brnachline Blueprint or Proto 2000 is always the hardest. My first venture to this level was a P2K tank car kit. AFter getting down to the point of having one more grab left on the sprue and absolutely NEEDING that one to have a complete set of unbroken ones, I put the whole thing aside in frustration. Over time I aquired 2 more simialr kits at trains hows, and decided to have another go at it. This time I carefully looked over everythign at each step adn realized how by deviating slightly fromt he instructions, things coudl go together a LOT easier with less chance of breaking things. Plus I discovered that a single-edge razor blade is by far the best despruing tool for this fine stuff, even better than the little despruing ttweezers. Using one of those self-healign cutting mats as a surface, and shileding the cuttign area with my other hand, I managed to get all the parts cut off for thise second attempt without breaking any, and losing on one on the floor somewhere. Luckily they give you a couple of extras. Tip #2 - the parts are sized to fit the holes on UNPAINTED models only. So before trying to force (and break) any of these grabs and ladders, I drilled out EVERY mounting hole. This is probably the most time-consuming part of the assembly. Once the holes have been drilled out, the parts slip right in withotu pressure being applied, and assembly proceeds rapidly. AFter succesfully completing the secodn kit, I pulled out the one I had put aside, and finished that off. By the time I got to the third one, I had the process down pretty well, and it only took a few hours from start to finish.

I’m not stuck on these highly detailed kits, I buy whatever kits fit my layotu needs, be they AThearn, Accurail, the Blueprint or the Yardmaster lines - doesn’t matter. One thing I apply to ALL aspects of the hooby - never force yourself to do anything. DOn;t go “Oh, I need to finish these 5 kits by Friday”. Finsih them when you feel liek workign

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Call me Primitive Pete if you wish, but my take is that I really don’t need any fine detail that I can’t see from a meter away. That includes black grabirons on my black freight cars. Most of them don’t even have brake gear.

I have nothing but respect for folks who build microscopically-detailed models - but I’d be lucky to be able to do in one of the G scales what they do in HO. Since I don’t value frustration as an emotion…

As with sound and smoke, I just let my imagination supply what isn’t really there.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - rather casually)

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Hi!

Let me just thrown out my experience - which may or may not reflect yours…

  • The earlier Branchline Yardmaster kits I got had the sprues situated so as cutting them off (around the doors as I recall) exposed white plastic on the model. This was just bad engineering. Anyway, I made three attempts to get the paint color used from Branchline and got NO response. Sooo, I patched and weathered the car as best I could and sold off the remaining unbuilt kits.

  • I’m now 68, and have built several craftsman plastic kits while in my '60s. Not bragging, but they came out pretty nice - especially with a coat of Dull-Cote as it covers up exposed ACC spots. As nice as these cars are (Intermountain, Red Caboose, etc.), I tend to display them rather than actively run on the layout.

  • My layout freight cars are mostly Athearn or Athearn based BB built from kits, with KDs, weathered trucks, Intermountain wheelsets, and Dull-Cote. IMHO, these make up really nice postwar trainsets, and are pretty durable and “0-5-0 switcher friendly”.

  • I’ve been building plastic models since the mid '50s, and have been doing so thru today. Obviously age has taken its toll on my eyesight, dexterity, and steadiness of the hands. But, I’ve found that with a well lite workbench, an Optivisor with 2.5 magnifier, some of the more specialized tools, and a good dose of additional patience, my physical model building shortcomings can be pretty well overcome.

Hey, whether you buy RTR (is there really such a thing?) or build craftsman kits, the object is to ENJOY.

11

The detail you need is directly related to how far away you will be from the models, on my layout 2’ is the max as it is a walk-around. When I belonged to a club that had a centralized control, they didn’t even need break wheels!!!

12

I agree. The simpler and sturdier Roundhouse, Accurail and Blue Box Athearns look plenty good enough out on the layout. Especially if you paint the wheels and trucks. And give any glossy plastic parts a bit of DullCote.

On the other hand, building the superdetailed $20 kits is cool too. There is something quite satisfying about knowing that all those dinky little pieces are there, even if you cannot see them.

I have a lot of “basic” cars, and not quite so many advanced cars. In fact I have more darn cars than will fit on the layout. They are all good cars and I rotate them on and off the layout as the mood strikes me.

13

I think a lot of the demand for highly detailed models is influenced by model photography. When close up pictures are taken, the details become very important. But once the trains are running, as you have noted, the details just aren’t as apparent in the smaller scales.

While you can highly detail models in any scale and this can be an enjoyable activity, I really think you ought to model in O scale or larger if you enjoy this part of the hobby the most. The details are easier to work with and you notice them more on trains in motion. Space becomes a problem of course for building a layout, but for model building O or G is the way to go.

Like others, I mix RTR, highly detailed, and less detailed kits for my under construction S scale layout. For me, it represents the best compromise between layout and model size.

BTW, I have found sprue nippers to be one of the best tools I ever bought for plastic kits.

Enjoy

Paul

14

Hello Jim,

I can certainly sympathize with your frustrations for the first time building of the Branchline Blueprint-series kit. As owner of a large layout populated by about 75% Athearn BB and Roundhouse kits I began “upgrading” my fleet with these same Branchline kits and some Proto 2000 kits mostly because they had the cars and road names I was after. After building the first kit and having many of the small parts break during assembly I eventually came up with a plan of attack that works well for me. First I drill out every hole. Second I use a new single edge razor blade to cut the parts from the sprues. (Did not think of the plastic bag trick and may incorporate that on future builds). Third I use metal Tichy Train Group grab irons in place of the plastic ones supplied with the kit. I paint the metal grab irons with a small brush. Fourth I adapted the do not rush policy when building these kits. Having now built over a dozen P-2000 and Branchline kits each one gets a bit easier.

Using my fifty year old eyes from 3 feet away these cars when coupled to my Athearn and or Roundhouse cars may lose some of their detail but the paint schemes are well done and that is the principal reason I bought them.

Take a breather, run some trains and try another one. You have just passed the first learning curve.

John R

15

Interesting discussion going on. As a point of clarification, I want to be clear that I’m in no way bashing detailed kits. Quite the contrary - there are some very nice models out there that make exquisite models in the hands of a mildly competent modeler. I, on the other hand, working with reading glasses and a lit magnifier, am still addled by my set of seven left thumbs.

Building the kit was simultaneously frustrating and enjoyable. A conflicting experience. I might have to try another kit…

Following up on my original post, here’s the finished Blueprint car

And here it is coupled to an old Roundhouse car, which I painted & decaled

Jim

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I can also relate to this thread. What i now do is put a finger on the part to be trimmed and using a chisel blade I cut the part from the sprue, I leave a lit of the sprue attached and using a flexable nail file that I have cut down to small sanding strips I file the extra material away. I also went thru the wifes sewing box and found the largest needle, I now use it to open the holes for the detail parts and handrails, just what I do to help keep my sanity when building locos and rolling stock. The baggie trick sounds like a great idea also, have to try it, Jim.

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Jim my Monon Buddie you are preaching to the chore now! I spent around 10 hour building a covered hopper that came with around 300 parts. I kept thinking “this is going to look so cool” and got most of the parts on the car. End results, from where I sit it might as well been a Athearn Blue Box.

It is the fully pictured Hopper on the left. Blue box in front and rear of it. While I sort of enjoyed building it, it will be my last 300 piece car i will build.

Ken

18

Is that car an Intermountain? Yes, they do take some time to build. But having built one myself, I’m pretty sure that I can tell the difference between it and an Athearn BlueBox. Maybe not from 3 feet away. But what benchwork I have is about at my chest level, so I can get close and personal with the cars.

However that’s beside the point. It seems every other day there is a thread started by someone bemoaning the fact that the hobby is expensive. What, may I ask, did you pay for that car? Probably less than $25. So it took you 10 hours to build. That comes out to $2.50/hour for a hobby. Where else are you going to have an hour’s worth of “fun” for $2.50?

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Hi everyone!

I have said this before: If your detail isn’t that good just run your trains faster![swg][(-D][}:)]

Seriously, I think there is a learning curve to most aspects of model railroading and building rolling stock kits is no different. The first time I built a P2K tanker I minced no words about the person who designed such a beast. I broke lots of the grabs and had a hard time installing the ones that didn’t break.

However, I said to myself that if others have found solutions to the challenges then I should be able to solve the problems too, and I did. One key point has already been mentioned - if the holes are too small to easily insert the grab iron lugs then drill them out a bit! In fact, I don’t even do a test fit - I just drill the holes out a bit automatically. Any small gaps are covered by the base of the grab irons.

When it comes to cutting delicate parts off of the sprues I still use a FRESH #11 blade. I noticed however that there was often a difference in the distance that the sprue joint sits above the cutting mat depending on which side you put down. The closer the sprue joint is to the mat, the less likely that the part would be damaged. It seems to make a significant difference.

There is an old saying: “If at first you don’t succeed, then try, try again”. You will get better, guaranteed! And, for your next challenge, try some 0402 SMD LEDs! I have to use my imagination to solder the wires to them because I can’t see them when they are held in my tweezers! It works - most of the time[swg][(-D] My next investment will be an Optivisor with headlights.

Dave

20

Yup, meant to say that - for P2K kits and the Brnacline Blueprints (I still have a a good stack on my shelf in the “to be built” category), and others along those lines, I just automatically drill out the hols for grabs and ladders and any other such parts that need to fit in a hole. Where possible, if the hole already doesn;t go through to the inside of eg a house car like a bx car, I drill them through so I can apply cement from the inside. This isn;t always possible, but where it is, this si the best way to prevent marks on the finish.

–Randy