A Really Truly Radical Thought...

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

There has been a lot of conversation about grade crossing accidents… and prevention and control and all that… much of which boils down to somebody driving a vehicle didn’t pay attention, or wouldn’t, or did and tried to beat the train anyway.

Seems to me, though, that this is just the tip of a much bigger iceberg. Highway accidents in the dear ol’ USA take just about as many lives of folks daily as all other modes of transportation yearly; we are so used to it that, unless it hits home, it doesn’t even make the evening news.

My thought is this: why is it that we take driving a car as a right, but driving/flying/operating pretty much anything else as a privilege to be earned and guarded and prized? If you are going to drive a commercial vehicle, the very least you need is a CDL and a log, and keep yourself substance-free (there are random checks, you know!). If you are going to fly a plane, you need a pilot’s license and etc. If you are going to operate a train, you have to pass an apprenticeship and etc. But to drive a car? You pass one test, which is absolutely trivial, and you’re on the road for the rest of your life.

What would happen if a driver’s license was as tough to get as any of the other licenses/privileges? What would happen if there were random substance tests for all drivers – and severe consequences if you failed? What if you had to keep a log, and be able to show you hadn’t driven too long or too fast? What if you were personally responsible for the condition of your vehicle, and wound up hiking if it failed an inspection? Might it save a life or two, now and then?

Oh I know – even with the tough licenses, pilots make mistakes and planes crash; truck drivers and bus drivers mess up and bad things happen, and locomotive engineers and conductors make mistakes, too – but nowhere near as often.

Think about it.

Comments?

2

Yeah- I do have comments actually.

Look at how easy it is to get a Driver’s liscence. I bet you can get a liscence in Arkansas jsut by saying the alphabet without pausing. (jokes) But jokes aside, Look at how many epople have Driver’s permits- the majority of us. It’s in mass demand. The test never gets harder when somehting is in mass demand. if one to many people screw up on the same question and they go to the person in charge of forumlating the test, they have a good chance at getting that question stricken from the test.

making it EASIER!

Look, I’m not putting my blame on anyone, But you have to look out what kind of people we are. We want somehting now, immediately. Not time to wait, sooner then soon. Impatience is our middle name. We don’t have time to wait behind RR gates and wait for this Bugger train to go by, if we can get in front of it, we might make it to our destination on time.

It does have somehting to do with how organized we are in life. If your unorganized, you leave 5 minutes late, and look for any way to make up that time.

A train leaves at time scedualed, making it’s allotted stops, always on time- why? it’s organized. The RTC keeps it on track (BAHA! (see the pun?)) Unorganization leads to time missmanagment, Time missmanagement leads to Time Crunch- Time Crunchs often lead to tardyness, And that jsut beckons for any excuse to cut corners and make up time.

You’ll enevr be able to remove all the level crossings,. nor will you have such a profound impact on society. Ghandi Wouldn’t be able to starve himself enough to get people to obey Crossing warnings. That’s a pure and simple fact.

Ever watch CSI? look at how fast the images flash from one scene to another, Have high speed internet, look at how fast web sites go- Thats what age we are in, to hell with Iron, bronze and what-not age, this is the age of Rapidity. an Amtrak going at 59MPh doesn’t cut it anymore, it never did, and lo

3

Both good posts.
I’ve often said we freely qualify the unqualified to operate heavy machinery without a fixed guideway.
Mitch

4

45 Views, Two responses.

I’m jsut making sure the queery so to say didn’t change to somehting so hard that people can only look but can’t answer- nope still the same.

5

Both ends of the system have similar problems. We have 16 year olds who have well documented lack of judgement and increasingly shorter attention spans piloting 2000 pound rockets around with minimal (if any) training. New York requires a 5 hour “try to scare the hell out of you” course, you have to take a 20 or so question test , vision test,and then drive around the block with an inspector. Get past those four minor hurdles, keep your nose clean, pay the license fees, and you are set for the rest of your life. Which brings us to the other end of the spectrum.

The well-known case of the elderly gentleman who mowed down a bunch of pedestrians without even realizing it is just one extreme example of someone whose lifetime driver’s license should have been pulled ages ago. The elderly driver is an acknowledged problem with a very vocal constituancy. Just try to take away their license!

In states with inspections, your personal vehicle is subject to more tests than you are.

Unfortunately, the answer is more dollars for the increased testing and administration. And don’t forget that those drivers are also voters, so any politician who tries to stiffen up the requirements for obtaining and holding a drivers license better have lots of support from someone, or this will be his last term.

6

Driving a car is a priviledge, not a right by law. (Comes up every time the mandatory insurance bugaboo hits)…Does not stop people from driving w/o insurance or drivers licenses or drunk. Increase the consequences/ penalties and the liberal left whines and bawls. Accountable - who? us?..must be the other guys fault, not widdle me…

Truckers are supposed to keep logs - that system is a joke - does not work. Truckers call them comic books and fairy tales - enforcement is horribly uneven.[}:)]

7

There lies the rub - far too many people think it’s a right.

8

Add the fact that even the forum can’t always agree on even a small point and you see why things don’t happen.

And while you are talking licenses for everything - what about parenting? That’s pretty important, too and we leave it to everyone’s imagination.

I feel like we have become a huge house of liberties built on a very small, unsafe foundation.

Mook

9

I know, But, Reverse psychology and history points out, when you put sarcasm like that on a page, it ups the responses.

I gave it a shot, seems to have worked.

10

Mark- Around here the radical left does not want to pay for insurance…the radical right does not want to pay taxes or pay for license plates. I’m trying to avoid getting rammed by one and/or shot by the other - and both need to learn how to drive.[X-)][X-)][X-)]

Have had more company trucks hit by unlicensed/ uninsured drivers than I have fingers on one hand. Like most surveyors, have been shot at and threatened by gun toting, alcohol fortified boobs far to many times. Spent too much time working in the Colorado extremes of Boulder (Left) and Colorado Springs (Right)…Think I’ll move to Last Chance if a railroad ever goes through there.

11

US Transportation Fatalities by Mode 1999 from the Victoria Transportation Polict Institute (www.vtpi.org)

Rate per billion passenger miles:

Passenger car occupants 8.4
Motorctcle passengers 22.0 correction 220
Truck occupants 7.4
School bus & transit bus occupants 0.7
Intercity bus occupants 0.2
Commercial air 0.3
Transit bus- total 3.7
Commuter rail-total 10.0
Subway-total 6.5
Light rail-total 15.7

total = includes vehicle occupents of other road users. Includes non-occupants and employees

12

I thought this might be interesting…

Mud – it’s quite true that enforcement of the CDL regulations for truckers is horribly uneven; if anything, that’s a kind statement! However, the mechanism is there – and really bad examples do tend to get weeded out.

But the fundamental problem remains – as Larry notes, far too many people regard driving to be a right, not a privilege. And they all vote… so three things happen, all bad: first, the ‘test’ to get the license is absurdly easy, and is never repeated; second, the laws for enforcement are held to a ridiculous minimum; and third, what laws there are are not enforced (among them is the obligation to stop for railroad crossings – all the time, if they are ‘stop, look, listen’ or when active).

Do I think these things can be changed? Probably not… but one has to admit that we spend far too much time and effort and money fixing the symptoms and far too little fixing the problem – at least in my humble opinion.

13

Yes, Parenting is correct. Look, Between you and me and the lasp post, and these fine forum members, Paris Hilton on Tv is much easier to watch then your kids.

Thar be the truth, as long John Ag once said.

You know, it brings me back to a book I jsut read still life with crows First, all of the sudden murders start appearing in a small town- Was it bad parenting, aboslutely.

You see this book was taken from a real life event, when a child was secluded from the normal social life and was locked ina basement for years. this is what the book derives from/

This person was kept in a cave for 50 and change years before esacping. He had the mental age of a 5 year old and was hunting people down supposedly- but as you discover later on, he simply wants to play with them. Ofocurse, think about it. People aren’t ment to be 50 years old with a 5 year old meant al capacity, he could abrley say any words other then “play wif me” he had the Strength of a 50 year old with 5 year old commands- ofcourse people are going to get killed- he doesn’t know any better, he is simply playing with these people in a fashion he would find appropriate- its too late to teah him right/wrong/ innapropriate behaviours now.

this leads me back to my point- A child can not go through seclusion of any sort without psychologial disturbances. Perhaps, okay, not to that extent. But it effects the children in some way- ignoe- that fuels resentment, even that causes a disruption, hence attention is seeked in a negative fashion, That ultimately leads to crime.

what point am I arguing again? better scroll up…

Oh yes, parents are ultimately responsible for the well being of their kids under the age of 18. I do put a limit on it, anyhting outside that is Square on the child.

I think that’s all i need to say.

don’t ignore your Children, for God’s sake!

14

Two things I know: 1. driving a private motor vehicle on a public highway is not a right, it’s a privilege. 2. there’s nothing in the constitution that says we have to provide infrastructure for every auto the manufacturers can sell.

All over the country we seem to have difficulty coming up with adequate funds to eliminate traffic congestion. Politicians are wringing their hands over the lack of funds, cost overruns and the costs that accidents and delays impose on our health care system and the economy in general. Yet local elected officials still seem free to approve new development in areas that are accessible only to those who drive. We should be prohibiting any new development that is not at least as accessible and functional for those who don’t drive as it is for those who do. No one should be forced to depend on modes of transportation so dangerous that they require seat belts, air bags or crash helmets.

15

What the heck does this have to do with Trains?

Mark

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What does it have to do with Trains? How are people who can’t or don’t want to drive cars supposed to travel?

17

In todays economic world, driving a vehicle is neither a right nor a privledge…IT IS AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY. Being restricted to non-motorized personal tranportation or public transportation severely limits the economic viability and potential of the population.

18

I been drivin since i have been able to reach a clutch, and yes it is way to easy to get a licence. My drivers test was a automatic econo car that i didnt even have to park. WAAAAYYYYYYY to easy, and doesn’t really test anything.

Well at least I can feel that i know what im doin, but others that dont take driving serously…

Adrianspeeder

19

Everyone thinks that they’re a better than average driver, I’m convinced that most people think they’re outstanding drivers, myself included! However, the reality is out there on review each and every time we get behind the wheel, evidence is in the newspaper every morning. Driver’s licenses are far too easy to get, I’ve always thought so (well, maybe not when I was 16).

As for drunken and impaired drivers, don’t even want to start on that but I think the penalties ought to be far stricter and immediate than they are. We know these things aren’t going to happen, though the crackdowns on DUI drivers have been more stringent than of old, still not unheard of to get it reduced to wreckless operation, though.

20

Let’s face it, the people of the US are too lax on driving. We have a new police chief here in Nashville. I bet we have more drunk drivers killing than murders, every year, every month. I bet your town does, too. Do the police take it seriously? Or do they have to put up with shyster lawyers that put the drunk back on the street & drive again? So we treet the drunk better than the murderer, even tho he will kill more people today??

The same applies to grade crossings. One point made on this forum is loud & clear. We need to keep ALL cars & trucks off the rails. The steel truck that the City of New Orleans hit in IL may have been even more deadly than the crash in CA. Having the P whatever upfront didn’t protect anybody.

So a radical idea would be to be much stricter on driving. For our own safety & security reasons, we have given away the right to drive. No more TV driving school to get your permit back. No more video game where you get to mow down pedestrians for points. Big fines & long jail times for drunks.