Good day Modelrailroaders
I have a question for you, I’m at the point where I’m going to model a river, since I’m modeling the Cascade Mountains of Oregon, I want my river to be rapid flowing, now, I have a foam subfloor, and I plan to use the Woodland scenics materials for the project, would it be better to cut out a section of plywood for my river bed, or would the foam be ok ??? Thanks looking forward to hearing from you all!![8D]
A lot of the ‘best’ answer is going to involve how you plan to make that river. For example if you plan to cast it, you need to exert tremendous care not to leave even the slightest leak, or allow one to strain or soak its way open. This is difficult in different ways with regular plywood or typical foam; some of the ‘revealed wisdom’ on rivermaking and water over the years here suggests other methods of forming the channel.
I used the Unreal Details “Magic Water” two-part epoxy product on my layout, and the river or creek bed was foam, sculpted a little with hot wire and covered with greenish ground foam with strategically placed rocks and logs (and one actual detail that I remembered seeing in that very creek as a teen: a coupler and its drawbar had evidently been pulled out on the grade and had been thrown over the edge of a bridge landing in the water, very visible for years until it was covered with silt and algae).
That way I could texture the creek bed as I would regular scenery before the “pour.” I prefer to put the colors and textures on the bed rather than add tints to the “water.”
And before the “pour” on my layout I created a small creek or river bed out of a hunk of foam to try out my various ideas - an idea which I recommend by the way. It is a skill and all skills take practice.
In both the testing sample and the final product on the layout the biggest challenge was exactly what Overmod mentions: tightly sealing every place where the liquid could escape, because it is almost unbelievable how well we think we’ve sealed something for liquids versus the unpleasant reality. In both cases I created end “dams” of sheet styrene, very well secured to the foam creek or river bed with flexible adhesive caulk. The trick was to remove the dam after the water hardened without ripping out some of the foam but a sharp knife and patience did the trick.
The effect of rushing water I added after the base pour had hardened. And again I practiced that also on my little sample water feature. As a rule scenery experiments are easy to rip out and do over but for water features I think it pays to create a practice example first rather than experiment on the layout itself.
Dave Nelson
This is where I would very seriously ask myself why I would not use gel gloss medium. You needn’t worry about the medium ‘running’ and sagging, or flowing, into places where you had hoped it wouldn’t, and you needn’t worry about leaks. Instead, you craft your river bed, gouging and filing, cutting and rubbing, and when you have it looking much like you fancied it, start with a single layer of painted gel gloss medium. When that cures to clear, add another layer…and so on. You can add talus and other debris or erosion artefacts as you need to, maybe best right after that first layer and embed it to fix it into place.
A rushing stream won’t look as deep and dark like the slower murkier ones will. So be careful about how you prep the river bed in terms of shading with craft paints.
Either one will be fine for the base to model the river upon.
When I model a water feature, I cover the base with a layer of drywall joint compound and work the surface perfectly smooth. Then I build up the river on top of that.
Since the base will be covered with joint compound, plywood or foam will both work equally well.
-Kevin
Size of the river might make a difference. Cutting a narrow mountain river or stream might be easier just in the foam. A slower moving wider river might benefit from a flat sub-bed.
Also, mountain rivers tend to be very clear without much carried silt, bottom sediment or algae growth. Time of year makes a big difference to water colour. Depth turns most mountain rivers blue/green again depending on time of year.
Run off water levels require different bank scenery than low water late season flows. Lots of scope for imagination.
Perhaps some of the following my be useful in your approach. I included a depressed corner on my plywood cookie cutter layout, taking the idea from the 2012 Virginian Project Layout. I created sloped sides with hot glued cardboard strips plus plaster cloth and then applied Sculptamold.
IMG_7156 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
Next I painted on my latex earth tone and added scenery to the side slopes.
IMG_7166 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
Next was to paint the river bed with blended shades of blue to tan to imply the varying depth.
IMG_7165 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
I added some small stones in the river bed and along the shoreline. Then added a first layer of water, using my chosen Mod Podge Gloss medium. It goes on looking like white glue and within a couple hours turns to clear. One photo shows it mid way clear and the other when not quite finished.
IMG_7167 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr
IMG_7168 by Paul Ahrens, on Fl
Great sequential series of photos, Paul! [Y]
Rich
Very creative treatment of an external corner.
The normal curve of our tracks leaves quite a lot of this unusable real estate. Not enough room for a useful siding.
The big advantage of modelling a river is the lower elevation. You get a great look and a better view of your trains.
Oh, and, the quality of your resulting scenery is very good.
I have to agree, that’s a nice looking scene, and one that’s not seen often…very imaginative use of your space, Paul.
Wayne
Great work on the river along the layout. It demonstrates a great level of detail and creativity.
To the OP’s Q: I would suggest using Plaster of Paris to ensure whatever water product you use doesn’t seep through the foam.
The described white “glue” product that sets clear would also reduce that resin leakage type risk. Mod podge is labelled as a glue, sealer and finish product.
Depends to some extent how deep the water is supposed to be and how clear. You only need the top layer to look watery unless you’re looking for some depth of clear surface water.