Kind of like a quickie -
I asked this before, but then lost it in all the postings we have had lately.
Can someone tell me the forumla for how many feet for how long for a 1% grade? I was told one time, but can’t find my notes on it.
Thank you.
Mz Moo
The previous topic where this was discussed is
“Horse shoe curve”
Take it from a guy that has done his share of surveying, You got that 4% right even if you are in pretty good shape
Thank you - I knew someone would come through for me!
Mook
I went back to the topic and printed it off. Lots of info there!
Thanx
…Now just think about Saluda and it’s 4.7%…How did they ever get that much weight up that grade…!! Yes, I know they did for years, but doesn’t it make one think about railroad equipment grinding up that much grade.
Anything over 4% and you might as well use the clog system like they use in Switzerland.
Uhhh, I think you mean “cog”, not clog. Oh, and we do have a few cog railways in the U.S. The Mt. Washington Railway in N.H. comes to mind…
LC
oops my mistake I meant cog.
OK - silly me - I will ask - why wouldn’t you use a cog system on the Saluda? Not efficient enough? Too heavy? Takes too long to move trains? I don’t know - that’s why I am here. Just seems like a really scary way to get from point to point to do it the “normal” way.
Mook
Maintenence issues notwithstanding - you would have to have a dedicated set of locos just for Saluda. It’s not that they couldn’t be used anywhere else on the system, but they’d be needed on the grade, so couldn’t leave. Given enough traffic, that could be worthwhile. You’d also have to have enough spare cog-equipped locos to cover downtime for the primary set, and they would also be captive to the area near Saluda so they would be available if needed.
Well, Duh - I sure didn’t think outside the box on that one did I!
Mookie
Dear Mookie,
There are a few other reasons for not using a cog railway. Firstly, all trains would have to switch locomotives, which costs money (the ultimate no-no for railroads). Also, cog railways cost more to build, and when Saluda was built, labor was cheap, so railways just ran many, short trains. The same thing happened pretty much on Cumbres (4%) and Raton (3.5%) passes.
I hope I have helped,
Daniel
Well, see - that is why the forum is so interesting - kind of like one collective brain!
I will think of the questions and rely on all of you to supply the reasoning!
Mook
…I suppose Shay engines would have been able to meet that grade requirement pretty good [years ago], but believe they were used in logging operations much of the time. Not sure adhesion was the real problem there. Just pure weight…pulling it up such a steep grade…engines can just pull so much tonnage up a certain grade…and holding that tonnage back and in control decending the same grade. I suppose the bottom line in recent years was it got to be too costly to operate up and down that grade. And of course the always present danger of tragedy.
Mark…Are you saying the little “geared locomotives” had no advantage on steep grades using their built in “gear ratio” as long as they could achieve adhesion over a high drivered unit that had less mechanical advantage in it’s design…Leaving the rough track out of the equation.
I’ve got to agree with Larry on this one. The old Pennesylviana had the branch running into Madison,In.(I think it came from North Veron,In.) but anyway,it was an 8-9% grade,they used specially geared SD-7’s or -9’s.
Mark…Totally agree. I was simply wondering in conversation if the Shay with it’s “lower gearing” set up…small wheels included can’t climb a steeper grade than an engine with the configuration of high drivers and hence, “higher geared ratio”…Assuming there would be enough adhesion to accompli***hat.
Locomutt…I’ve read about the “steep” grade at Madison, In. for years but have never seen it…Is it still in use…?
Some specs. I’ve read on it…Grade is 5.89% and a special rack and pinion gear setup was built and successfully used for about 20 years in the middle of the 1800’s.
It was converted back to an adhesion railroad branch then and I believe thereafter.
[quote]
Originally posted by Lima Loco
Its COMING DOWN 4% that gets tricky!!! with thousands of tons… Sweat flows and lots of pucker. Cab heater gets foot prints on it.
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