This thread is not for nobodies, so FM is not welcome here…
I’d like to know if anybody has any current, interesting ideas about railroading that are worth discussing, for examples sake only, here are a few questions:
If you had the necessary financial backing would you be willing to start your own railroad?
Assuming your answer to #1 is yes, would you be willing to build all or part of your new railroad?
Where would it go and why?
What commodities would you haul?
What customers would you serve?
How would you provide the service?
What are your projected returns and why?
In answering the foregoing questions, try to be realistic. Refrain from fantasy, please. It is very unlikely that investors will throw cash into something without the hope of a generous short term return on that money and likewise, the government is not likely to give away grants as it has in decades past. Assume that all existing laws, rules and regulations apply and that steam is not a reasonable form of propulsion due to cost issues. If you doubt the gift issue look at the DM&E and their attempt to build. With that, I look forward to the responses…
If I had the necessary financial backing I would proceed to buy out all of Cedar American Rail Holdings. Having no railroad experience I would retain the help of Scheiffer (business partner) and possibly look into heavy colaboration with MRL. I would also actively recruit the best brains in the business - not trying to build a layout but rather a business. Recognizing that the current political climate is not conducive to new railroad building, I would form a holding company that would own Cedar American and MRL. The purpouse of the holding company would be to coordinate between the railroads and encourage the eventual merger. During this time both properties would be upgrading their main cross country routes, with special attention on the lines with potential for new business. So far the railroad would be good for originating and terminating coal (via the PRB) ag, lumber, and possibly limited intermodal from BNSF’s overcrowded northern transcon. Certainly by this time UP and BNSF would realize the intentions of this company and would be loathe to give it any business, so any business plan that relies on those railroads as a component of success would be risky at best. Eventually I would pursue re-construction of the Milwaukee Road from Deer Lodge to the ports of Tacoma. This would create a transcon route from a port with the potential of becoming quite large (due to congestion at Los Angeles) to the must-have city of Chicago. At this point I would be able to set up offices in China, India, Korea, and Japan, all with the interest of fostering intermodal growth. My company would become a formidable competitor with BNSF and UP for long haul business. At this point, I would start looking for an eastern railroad to merge with, possibly CSX. This would create a dream scenario - and true cross country railroad.
RISKS:
As you pointed out investors are looking for short
I’ve got two ideas for this, so I’ll go through it all twice.
Yes - although it wouldn’t be a railroad so much as a service provided on existing infrastructure owned by a shortline.
I’d be using existing track, although it might need some work. Also depends on availability of suitable rolling stock. There is another route running out of the same town I would use as the base of operations, but it’s currently out of service and might require more attention before it could be used.
It would run between two small nearby towns already provided with freight service by the short line. About 15 miles one way.
People eating dinner, maybe with some performance thrown in (ie, dinner theater - murder on the train, etc)
Diners wishing to partake of a meal on the rails. The shortline already handles any freight on the line.
Pretty much like most dinner trains.
There being no similar service in the area, I feel this has a chance. The summer season would be easy - this is an area that depends heavily on the tourist dollar. The winter season also has possibilities, although snow removal (in a known heavy snow area) now becomes an issue, as well as weather that might
As I have no RR experience, and even less large business experience, I would be looking to fill all positions with experienced people. Normal hiring practices would apply such as references, performance, and education. I would rather take a background position as an investor because I would not be qualified to lead. I am sure that this would include leadership positions in marketing, maintenance, operations, technology, R&D, human resources and so on.
The railroad side of the dinner train would be fairly easy - we’re talking about a 25 mph operation here, maybe. Slower if we want the experience to last longer. The maintenance of the equipment would be important, though.
On the food side, I need someone in charge who can provide popular menus, and we need to be able to get them on the table promptly. The entertainment folks would need to be able to provide a suitable package that fit into the schema, as well.
As for the “real” railroad - Obviously we need people who can run a safe and efficient line, but I also need people who can be proactive, seeking out new users for the line, including such possibilities as a dinner train - this line would be great for that, too.
Actually, quite honestly, I probably wouldn’t. I don’t know a lot about railroads, and I’m a terrible businessman. However, since it would make the rest of this post fairly boring, just for a minute I’ll pretend that I would.
I think I’d look for something that’s completely in place, or close to it, at least for starters. That would be one less headache to worry about as a beginner railroader.
It would probably be a branch line that doesn’t generate enough carloads to keep Class I’s interested, but still has some traffic, and the potential for profits for a small company willing to take the time to serve smaller shippers. Ideally, it would also have some large tracts of open land that could be developed into an industrial park geared towards single carload shippers. And, to top it all off, it would be in a scenic location where generating some surplus income on dinner / entertainment / etc. trains would be possible kind of like Larry’s proposal. If it’s all about the money, we’ll put a diesel on the front (at least for starters), but if I’m allowed a little fantasy, I’d try to find something like a mogul, or a prairie for the excursion stuff.
Since it’s based on being a single car-load basis, I’m sure just about anything could be shipped. There would probably be a lot of widgets, gizmos, and thingamabobs shipped in box cars going out. Incoming loads would vary quite a bit based on what widgets, gizmos and thingamabobs require in their manufacturing processes. Since it’s a branch line deal, there could be a grain elevator on the line (we’re assuming someplace in the midwest…my first railroad isn’t going
If I had the necessary financial backing I would proceed to buy out all of Cedar American Rail Holdings. Having no railroad experience I would retain the help of Scheiffer (business partner) and possibly look into heavy colaboration with MRL. I would also actively recruit the best brains in the business - not trying to build a layout but rather a business. Recognizing that the current political climate is not conducive to new railroad building, I would form a holding company that would own Cedar American and MRL. The purpouse of the holding company would be to coordinate between the railroads and encourage the eventual merger. During this time both properties would be upgrading their main cross country routes, with special attention on the lines with potential for new business. So far the railroad would be good for originating and terminating coal (via the PRB) ag, lumber, and possibly limited intermodal from BNSF’s overcrowded northern transcon. Certainly by this time UP and BNSF would realize the intentions of this company and would be loathe to give it any business, so any business plan that relies on those railroads as a component of success would be risky at best. Eventually I would pursue re-construction of the Milwaukee Road from Deer Lodge to the ports of Tacoma. This would create a transcon route from a port with the potential of becoming quite large (due to congestion at Los Angeles) to the must-have city of Chicago. At this point I would be able to set up offices in China, India, Korea, and Japan, all with the interest of fostering intermodal growth. My company would become a formidable competitor with BNSF and UP for long haul business. At this point, I would start looking for an eastern railroad to merge with, possibly CSX. This would create a dream scenario - and true cross country railroad.
1. Yes. I have operated and managed several railroads.
2. It would be an extension of a current line to a connection to another short line. I would also purchase that short line,rehabilitate it,and operate as one railroad.
3. I would love to tell you,but unless you were a principal,that will have to remain classified.
4. Iron ore,limestone,granite,and sand and some agricultural products.
5. Several limestone quarries and sand pits with currently no rail service with proven reserves of over a billion tons of raw materials.
6. Daily service with unit trains to the TWO Class One connections that this railroad would connect with. Locals would operate to take care of the other traffic during grain season,plus handle other non unit train traffic. Tourist trains are a possibility since the railroad will operate in a very scenic area,but it is not the focus of the operation;it’s operation would not be a focus of operating the line.
7. This railroad would be expensive to construct,since it would be built through quite mountanous terrain and I would hope to build it with nothing more that a one percent grade. It lessens my operating costs while increasing my construction costs. Rebuilding the connecting short line would also be a little expensive,since it is built with 90 pound rail and needs quite a bit of work to handle the traffic projected. The cost to build 60 miles of new railroad,plus purchase and rebuilding of the second railroad I estimate to be around 220 million dollars,including land purchase. Projected carloads are about 40,000 cars per year for the next 50 years,added to the current traffic on both lines would add total to 60,000 cars per year.
If I had the necessary financial backing I would proceed to buy out all of Cedar American Rail Holdings. Having no railroad experience I would retain the help of Scheiffer (business partner) and possibly look into heavy colaboration with MRL. I would also actively recruit the best brains in the business - not trying to build a layout but rather a business. Recognizing that the current political climate is not conducive to new railroad building, I would form a holding company that would own Cedar American and MRL. The purpouse of the holding company would be to coordinate between the railroads and encourage the eventual merger. During this time both properties would be upgrading their main cross country routes, with special attention on the lines with potential for new business. So far the railroad would be good for originating and terminating coal (via the PRB) ag, lumber, and possibly limited intermodal from BNSF’s overcrowded northern transcon. Certainly by this time UP and BNSF would realize the intentions of this company and would be loathe to give it any business, so any business plan that relies on those railroads as a component of success would be risky at best. Eventually I would pursue re-construction of the Milwaukee Road from Deer Lodge to the ports of Tacoma. This would create a transcon route from a port with the potential of becoming quite large (due to congestion at Los Angeles) to the must-have city of Chicago. At this point I would be able to set up offices in China, India, Korea, and Japan, all with the interest of fostering intermodal growth. My company would become a formidable competitor with BNSF and UP for long haul business. At this point, I would start looking for an eastern railroad to merge with, possibly CSX. This would create a dream scenario - and true cross country railroad.
I would try and buy the railroad I currently work for.
As to building part of it, I would like to see an additional SIT yard added and our service area extended to include most of the defunct HB&T, and an extension to added, to serve that port as well.
Where and why?
Serve both sides of the ship channel, and the wharves.
With the huge number of refineries and petro-chemical plants located here, volume and car loadings wouldn’t be a problem, (we currently handle 500,000 cars on average per year)
Commodities would be the chemicals and petroleum products made at the refineries, the raw materials shipped in to product the plastics and such, steel, in all forms, pipe, lumber, grain and coke unit trains.
Customers served would be the refineries, several heavy industries from drilling rig companies to ship builders, several grain elevators, the bulk material plant, which loads out barges and ships with coke and coal, two major paper mills, and with the inclusion of the HB&T, several steel users with every thing from plate and coil steel, to raw, or balled steel for reprocessing, major drilling pipe and pipe line suppliers and well over a dozen food processing plants, from Maxwell House C
I LIKE IT!! But, sadly, I have to ask, how would you get outside investors or banks to pay for it?? Remember, I asked about financial backing, not if you won the lottery…
Even Kevin Costner couldn’t manage a similar project although I imagine he has few problems attracting “loose” women…
Um - #4 has been tried already. (some outfit in Peoria)…Think that the $$$ grows on trees and he’s taken FM’s courses in “Brainwash, Bait & Switch” and “Advanced Whining for Superior Intellects”
Id buy the CN. Then, i’d split off the WC and the IC part. Create new regionals using the same names as they were, Wisconsin Central and Illinois Central. After doing this, I would return all locomotives that were in the IC or WC. I would then buy them all new units, painted in their scheme. After a few years of losing some money, i would then sell back the DMIR and the BLE. After that, I would sell back the DWP. This would all accumulate over several years. I would then file bankruptcy and be the head of the Wisconsin Central. Ya, that might work… Alec