In an LHS in Florida yesterday 1/22/2006. A father very well dressed about 35 years old and his son about 12 where talking to the LHS counter man. The father stated that they where SELLING all their trians and going to another more family friendly hobby. Being a good eaves dropper I pretneded to look at a book and listined. The converstion was that they had spent hundreds og dollers and still where no where near what they wanted to have. His biggest grip was the price of the smalles quality item. THey where PRICED OUT OF THE HOBBY!
This was the future giving up, how many more to follow?
I am a 27yearold family man with a 6 yr oldson and we will never be priced out of the hobby. Ive been ready to build the mountian at the left far corner of our layout for about 3 months and just not got the pink board to do it. If you like doing something then you welll at least I can wait for what I need or want until the coffers are full enough to support the purchase…WE WILL NOT BE PRICED OUT! We have too much love for the hobby here.
J.W…pirate for hire
I sympathize with your feelings, but I’m not sure things are that simple. I don’t know of many hobbies which are not expensive. You may be seeing a shift in culture. Kids and adults are habituated to almost instant gratification. Model railroading is kind of a long term thing. Look at the huge increase with the diagnosis in kids with ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Compare the number of kids per capita today who are medicated compared to 1970 or 1980. The growth has been exponential. I don’t think genetically humans have changed since then. To say they were PRICED OUT OF THE HOBBY! is overly simplistic. I feel frustration with rising prices, but I would be more convinced if you could show a correspondence between inflation and prices. When my parents bought me an engine for $20, they weren’t making 2006 wages. Quality has changed in the items. I often feel the way you do, but I think it is a very complicated issue. Look at the number of new cars the average family has now compared to the average family in 1970. There has been a huge cultural shift or shifts and you are comparing apples to oranges. Look at the diminishing number of kits available. They would still be available if they sold well. RTR things are much more expensive. Do you remember the Heath kits of the past? You could build a television, radio or whatever. They disappeared long ago because people no longer wanted them. I wish it were as simple as being priced out of the hobby. It isn’t.
Yes, this is getting to be an expensive hobby.
But only if you don’t do some research into what you want to do.
In this picture alone, I have almost close to $500 invested & this is not include what I have on the track to the right of these guys!
The initial start up shouldn’t cost more than $500 US.
MR did an article on setting up a small layout a few years ago costing $500.
To invest $500 into a hobby is peanuts, especially today.
My wife finally has a hobby, scrapbooking.
She’s spent, I figure, close to $800 Can on it since she started.
Hobbies are not meant to be inexpensive, otherwise they’d be a necessity of life [:D]
Gordon
If you want to be in the hobby (any hobby) you will find a way.
From the sounds of things it seems like every one figures if we complain enough the prices will come down! They won’t until enough modelers quit buying the expensive stuff.
All hobbies require a lot of ca***o be involved in them if you are serious. (Try building a show car, once!) If you are not serious then you will spend a lot of money and soon lose interest as it will just be a passing fad.
I have seen this with many new members of our club. They jump right in (building their own home layout) but soon lose interest as the layout is not being built fast enough, or they get the layout done and wonder what else there is to do. They soon are off onto something else (R/C, fishing, boating, 4-wheelers, etc.) and again this only lasts a short while!
They do not want to spend the time to learn the skills of modeling as it takes too much time. But THIS is the fun of modeling the time involvement!
What gets me is the DCC thing and how few want to learn the basics of decoder installs. Why? Too much time to learn the basics of what makes an engine operate. Once the basics are learned then installing a decoder in no big deal. I have given several clinics on decoder installs and those in attendance are amazed as to the simplicity of the project.
It all boils down to, if you want to learn how to do something you can. But the trade off is time. If you don’t want to put in the time, then throw money at it and anything can be accomplished.
So don’t say it costs too much only because you want the RTR stuff and not put the time into a project to learn it.
Just my 2 cents
BOB H – Clarion, PA
Well with this idea of being rich to build a large layout, I have been in the hobby for almost 55 years now. I have been serious (as in building layouts) since 1978, so I have been collecting equipment for a long time.
It is all in where you put your priorities! (Using the $50,000 figure) that works out to $900 per year for me.
I am building my latest layout a little at a time. Also I do not have a lot of other activities (hunting, boating, summer homes, motorcycles, 4 wheelers, etc.) I have it narrowed down to a number of less expensive hobbies (if there is such a thing)!
And for any number of modelers that are into the motorcycles, hunting or boating I’ll bet that they have no problem going out and buy a new gun, boat, bike and yet think that the price of a new sound engine is too much!
It all in what you want to do and what is considered important – hunting, boating, bikes or model railroading, or spending every night at the pub!
Bob H – Clarion, PA
I believe if you don’t have it don’t spend it. I always try the train shows first. And I will wait till I find it as cheap as possible. Hobby stores hate me. I will walk in and get the prices new and then go to shows and start the haggling. You would be surprized what you can pick up new the close of a show. One example who be a NIB Proto 2000 GP38 Phase2 for 65.00 canadian. I will wait.Its a hobby not a way of life. Enjoy the challenges it presents. If I can’t buy it I make it most times cheaper .
Let em scream about being “Priced Out”
Ive gotten used to 300 dollar engines with sound and DCC installed. If it does not perform, it gets sent back for repair. I believe that for good products it is worth a dollar or to figureatively speaking (Spelling?)
Compared to computing or trucking the Hobby is cheap. Better that and running trains at home or with friends than comatose in the gutter downtown among the bottles.
Im sorry that wages did not keep up with the rising costs of living but it will take a little longer to budget for that nice item.
This argument has been around at least as long as I’ve been in the hobby, (off and on since the late '50’s).
We live in a society of “Instant Gratification”. No matter what we want, we want it NOW! This isn’t limited to MR, either.
Many people can have what they think they want, Homes, Cars, Electronics, etc. The latest and the greatest can be had by almost anyone, and they don’t care to wait for it. As long as your credit score is of a certain level, NOTHING is beyond your reach. Repayment? Well…, errr…, ummm…, Later for that.
MR is, as we all know, a bit different as it requires personal input and real planning to reach anything beyond an oval on a piece of plywood. While it IS possible to need a truck to carry all the items home from the LHS, or give the UPS guy a hernia for all your deliveries, one still needs to have some clue as to how all the pieces will work together.
All this takes TIME. Many don’t have the time, while others believe that large $$$ infusions should trump the time/experience idea. Any issue of MR can be selected, pick a layout and ALL one sees on it can be bought at once. The result, sadly, is somewhat lacking from the magazine pictures…
I can easily go online and buy everything to outfit the most modern Dental facility one could imagine, from the chair to latex gloves. I can install it in a correct location. Does this mean I’m ready to do Dentistry. Do YOU want me doing Dentistry, on YOU? Why not?
The bottom line is there is no substitute for experience. Whether it’s your own, or that of friends, experience takes time, both by doing and learning. No one is born an expert on anything.
I am 13 and love trains to death!! I will stay in as long as I am able to!! it is to bad those 2 were priced out but seeing that trains are 90% of my expenses. or now. I might take a few year break in college but right back in after!!! Tim
I think he’s right. They should go find a more family friendly hobby. I think he needs to run out and spend a few thousand dollars on an X Box, murder and mayhem games, and a big plasma TV for his son. That would be a lot better than these evil, over priced trains.[:(!]
There are allot of people who claim to be priced out of the hobby, but it just boils down to time and the desire to do the work. Yesterday I got a call from a guy who knew me from a friend of mine. I never met this guy, but he wanted me to look at all his HO items he had and tell him what to do with it. We went through several boxes of items, most of it was older Mantua steam engines, and MDC cars about 25 of them, boxes of track, building kits, and lots of old freight cars and parts. This guy was about 55 or so and just wanted to get rid of it. So I asked him what he wanted for it, and he said $50. Said the hobby was just to expensive and he did not have time. I ended up giving him $100 and walked away with a half a truck load of items. I think what it boils down to is time and the desrire to build and work on a layout.
I get fried at times doing MR, so I walk away for a week or so, or spend my time doing something alse besides MR, but I always come back to it. Some people lose interest and then it ends. I don’t think is a money issue as most think, all hobbies are expensive at times.
Like any hobby price depends on how indepth you go. I was talking with my Dad last night and reminiscing years gone by and talking about going to Georges Trains in Toronto back in the mid 70’s. As a tradesmen Dad was unable to pay for my Hockey and do the trains. It was too expensive. I remember looking at a NYC Hudson (Probably Rivarossi) It was $69. Cheap by today’s standards and remember the Canadian $ was worth $1.10 US
Do the math and $69 today (Dad says multiply by 4) It is a fair bit more and considering what we can buy today for under $100 we are probably better off. What makes this hobby expensive is the variety and “I must have now” mentality.
This is a hobby for the patient and those with time on hand. Rome was never built in a day.
Fergie
Compari
My two cents worth if I may. I know this and anyother hobby is and can be as expensive as we make it. I also believe that many that drop out of the hobby use the expense as an out. I also believe that we have become to expect too much from this hobby as in other hobbies. By that I don’t mean quality, I mean that in todays world we’ve (not all) come to expect to have things in an instant. I know this is an extreme example, but not long ago there was a thread started by a woman in Florida that wanted to know where to purchase a complete layout that could be set up in an evening. I’m also an avid model airplane builder and just as the model railroad has has progressed so has other hobbies. It hasn’t been that long ago that we built kits, and that was part of the enjoyment, what happened?? Now we’ve come to expect every thing be ready to run out of the box. I have no real issue with this except that we expect the manufacturer to do what we used to due but don’t want to pay the added expense. Ken
All hobbies can be expensive but in most cases once the initial investment is made its usually a good cheap hobby to have. I like ATVing with my wife, initial investment was 16000 dollars but, now we can go out, play in the mud and rip around the trails around our house all day for 20 bucks worth of gas. I have a small fortune tied up into my 78 Trans Am but to go enjoy a day out at a car show or cruise around on a nice warm Saturday it is usually 30 dollars worth of gas for the day. The same goes for trains, once the initial investment is made it is a very cheap hobby to be in. I find that most people who get into restoring cars get bored real fast because it takes years to do it right and they want it finished now. Thats why you see so many people start a project car but only 1/4 of them ever finihem. The same goes for trains, I bet of all the people that start a layout only 1/4 ever finihem. I bet the dude and his son were just bored because they didn’t see anything happening, I doubt they were priced out of the hobby. Then again, what the hell do I know.
It might be getting more expensive, but I’ll never be priced out of my favorite hobby. I have over $1000.00 worth of locomotives alone in the basement, can’t let them go to waste!
I think we now see more for our money than we used to. Go back 10 years and £40 would buy you a Hornby diesel loco. It would have a truck-mounted motor and traction tyres, pickup would be through one side of each truck. Couplers would be the big tension-lock type and detail would be geared to the trainset market (mostly moulded on). Fast forward to 2006. Your £40 will buy you a Bachmann diesel with a can motor, flywheels, and all wheels driven and picking up power. You’ll get a see-through roof vent and a seperate (static) cooling fan underneath it along with a pile of bufferbeam details as optional parts. Couplings are now small tension locks mounted in NEM pockets, so you can swap them for other types more easily or remove them and use a scale screw coupler. I’d say the £40 loco of 2006 is a long way in front of the £40 loco of 1996…
Right there is the perfect summation of this entire discussion.
I personally am involved in all four of the hobbies mentioned above, plus motorcycling, ATV’s, R/C airplanes, R/C boats and trucks and even from time to time Civil War reenacting. I am by no means rich, and don’t have any more free time than the average person, but I try to prioritize what I do have.
Sure, my ATV isn’t the newest model, none of my bikes are from some custom builder, my airplanes have some patches on the wings and my N-scale layout is progressing somewhat slowly, but what’s wrong with that? I enjoy every one of my hobbies greatly.
I always believed hobbies were supposed to be fun because of what one was doing, not just because of how much shiny stuff one manages to gather. I don’t think it would be as much fun to just go off to the store, plunk down my money and buy myself a hobby lock, stock and barrel.
Folks who do that are known in the local motorcycle community as “squeakers,” because their leather jackets are so new that they squeak when they move. It never ceases to amaze us how many people have never thrown a leg over two wheels, but go to the local shop, buy the biggest motorcycle they can find, a leather jacket, a pair of shades and an Orange County Choppers t-shirt, and instantly consider themselves a “biker.” More instant gratification, I guess.
It ain’t what you got, it’s what you do with it. And when you meet a squeaker, get to know them. They’ll soon have some stuff for sale pretty cheap. [:D]
Ray
You certainly can’t take one person’s comments and make a generality out of it by twisting it around to indicate that it is typical of the model railroading community overall. So one person quits – what’s the big deal about it.
I attended a model railroading swap meet yesterday (21 January) in Tucson, Arizona, and there were so many people there that the nearest parking was nearly 1.5 miles away in every direction from the show’s location. People were shoulder to shoulder inside, and many of them were purchasing items of every imaginable scale.
So one person says he thinks it is too expensive, and 1,500 or more are crowded into a convention center scarfing up model railroad items right and left – and so, because of one person’s comment, the hobby is dying. The Chicken Little syndrome strikes again.
I don’t think I’m going to rush out and begin selling my trains before they become worthless because no one can afford to buy them any more and all of the manufacturers go out of business…
A lot of them, but lets compare the situation to something else. Among other things my work involves the leisure time sport of Polo. I train horses and teach people how to ride and play the game. Not everyone is cut out for this. Quite a few people get started but quit. For some they had the mistaken impression that the horse does all the work. Sometimes the genteel and elegant impressions they got from the movies or TV is burst when they discover they are participating in a very gritty, violet and dangerous game. For some the hard work, dedication and time needed to become proficient is just too much. For some it simply isn’t affordable even though they enjoy it. It’s an expensive past time though not as expensive as most people would believe. However it’s expensive enough that even if you have the money it will certainly seem much too costly if your not having fun. But then there are those who take to it like a duck to water finding joy enough to overcome the challenges physical or financial and for another long list of reasons. The same is true for Model Railroading or any endeavor. The good I see is that it is evident some new people are giving Model Railroading a try. A few will find Model Railroading enjoyable for the rest of their lives. Good for them. Others may find something else. Good for them too. Bruce