US homeless estimate in 2018, according to the White House was actually 532,830.
That was a typo on my part as I meant to say “around 533,000” which is why my statement that they were about the same percentage of the population. I need to remember to wear my glasses when I do this.
Having some experience dealing with unions I can telll you they will fight as hard as they can against any change in work rules, even to agreeing to smaller wage increases.
As for Amtrak food service employees and their very high pay, Amtrak needs to do what many of the larger corporations did some years ago when they contacted their on-site food service operations (and sometimes their janatorial and grounds operations) out to independent contractors while the rest of the work force retained their union status. I remember reading somewhere that in many of those cases the quality of the food service improved as a result.
The question being ‘who said it improved’?
Outsourcing is not a panacea - you tend to get what you pay for and you no longer control what that is. Once you have outsourced a function and eliminated that segment of the work force you play hell in reestablising that segment once you have decided the outsource provider IS NOT delivering what they promised - and in many cases outsourcer’s don’t deliver. That is just the nature of the lowest bidder world.
I have experienced unions on both sides of the equation. Companies want to make ‘promises’ and not deliver. Unions want those ‘promises’ made in writing and then work to insure that the company delivers on thos ‘promises’.
You point out one of the main dividing points in the whole Amtrak discussion.
Should the U.S. government and taxpayers underwrite a long distance train program so that people can enjoy a train vacation?
There are good arguments supporting both sides.
Speaking of running late, the Texas Eagle - No. 21 - did not arrive in San Antonio until 7:43 this morning. It was more than 9 hours late. Apparently it was stuck behind a stalled freight train north of Marshall, TX for nearly five hours. And from there the situation got worse.
Although the on-time performance for the Eagle has improved in FY20 compared to FY19, due in part to reduced freight traffic during the spring and early summer, it has been seriously late on three occassions during the last three weeks. Stalled freight trains and/or mechanical issues were the reasons as per Amtrak’s alerts.
Has there been an increase in freight train breakdowns over the last three or four months? Where would find the data?
[quote user=“BaltACD”]
"The question being ‘who said it improved’?
Outsourcing is not a panacea - you tend to get what you pay for and you no longer control what that is. Once you have outsourced a function and eliminated that segment of the work force you play hell in reestablising that segment once you have decided the outsource provider IS NOT delivering what they promised - and in many cases outsourcer’s don’t deliver. That is just the nature of the lowest bidder world."
I remember that the article said the workers were polled and they were generally happy with the new food services. I’m familiar with Outside food vendor contracts and similar for companies. Its pretty rare that the company outsourcing the food service is looking to make a profit off of it so “low bid” is not a factor in selecting an Outside food vendor–you mainly go by other’s experience with them. It can be a national vendor or a local one.
The Outside vendor can sometimes also get the vending machine franchise which is where the company does have some bargaining room for its cut of the vending sales.
The companies taking this route are almost always looking to rid themselves of something that is draining money from them so their main object is to keep the employees happy while cutting their costs. Its standard contract procedure that if there are problems with the quality of product or service, the vendor is given a short time-frame to correct the issues or the contract is void–sometimes as little as 30 days. Its also common that the vendor only pays for utilities and any maintenance/repairs/renovations paid for by the comp
I think the main reason for out-sourcing the food and beverage service would be to cut (union) labor costs on trains and eliminate the provisioning centers completely. Only secondarily to improve quality.
I don’t know if the workers on the Rocky Mountaineer are unionized.
JPS1 posted in a thread a while back about the hourly wages of Amtrak food & beverage workers compared to Rocky Mountaineer’s food & beverage workers’ hourly wages. Amtrak’s wages were about double RM’s.
Before someone yells at me – I know that is not a fair comparison.
But it does point out an issue that faces an American rail system. If we truly want a passenger rail system that is world class, wages have to be in the discussion.
What are the wages of EU passenger train crews?
I don’t know that info. Maybe someone else has some idea.
Yes. The LSL might be the one train to leave in one piece. The Capitol should be be a DC to Cleveland train. The other half of it should be a Cleveland to Chicago day train. If you want to play “thru sleeper” game to LSL at Cleveland, go ahead, but that’s not a cheap thing.
Doing this you wind up with on time (or very close), daylight Cleveland to Chicago service and decent DC to Pittsburgh and Cleveland service. You could even mix in a connection to/from the Pennsylvanian at Pittsburgh at a reasonable hour of the day.
The rule is “run trains where the people are when they are awake”. Everything else is a waste of time and treasure.
You can still do DC to Chicago on the LSL with a quick trip up the NEC…
(I’d chop the Cardinal in Cincinnati)
So you really don’t know whether their wages are out of line?
No, I don’t. And I didn’t claim that.
I pointed out that one of the premiere trains in North America, with great food, pays their food and beverage workers quite a bit less than Amtrak.
I’m trying to point out that there are a variety of issues Amtrak faces. For 50 years they’ve struggled by, and if we keep doing more of the same, nothing will change.
If the country truly wants passenger rail transportation, then fundamental changes will have to take place, including wages, track rights, court injunctions, property challenges – virtually everything.
If we aren’t willing to make deep changes, then we should drop the idea of long distance train travel in the U.S.
Could it be that UP cutting back on HP per ton as per PSR, is causing more train stalls?
So the only way to have passenger train travel in the US is to deny the workers their collective bargining rights? If that is the case, then shut them down. Railroad workers are not your personal servants so you have choo choos to ride on.
Did I say that? Did I say anything like that? I grew up in a union family.
There’s one thing you said that I do agree with:
If we as a country think that it’s necessary to run a passenger train system, especially long distance trains, and we are not willing to make the changes to make it work, then shut it down and quit wasting tax dollars.
Funny. Of course, again, I didn’t say anything like that.
The 500 mile and under market is where Amtrak would be most successful. LD trains should not operate in the winter season. LD trains should be operated as tourist trains, with all the amenities of days gone by, in the mild weather months perhaps thrice weekly. Commuter type service to large urban areas from the suburbs could take up the void created by the cessation of LD service.
You said,
“1. Don’t require Amtrak to follow railroad union rules.”
“Railroad” union rules are no different than normal union rules. So yes, by not requiring Amtrak to follow union rules, you are denying them their collective bargaining rights.
You sure implied it. You mentioned wages needing to be discussed multiple times. Looking at Glassdoor.com, it appears that Amtrak’s LSAs wages are right in line with a flight attendant, which is much more an apples to apples job comparison than a Subway sandwich artist.
Here are some examples from the UK:
The average salary for a train conductor is approximately £28,460 sterling or $37,682 U.S. The top pay is £39,000 or $51,638 U.S.
The average salary for a train driver (engineer) on the Great Western Railway is approximately £51,999 or $68,850 U.S.; for the Southeastern Railway it is £50,472 or $66,960 U.S.; for Virgin Trains is £61,151 or $80,967 U.S.
The average salary for an onboard food service employee and car attendant is approximately £21,000 or $27,639 U.S.
“In the UK Train Drivers work a 35-hour week that is spread over 4 or 5 shifts (known as turns). Freight engine drivers tend to work more night shifts and long-distance routes, which often entails overnight stays away from home. The lengths of shifts/turns should be 5-11 hours but in practice are 7-10 hours.”
Cross country comparisons are risky. They are rarely apples to apples. For example, in the U.S. compensation includes salaries and/or wages, health insurance, pension benefits, etc. In the UK employees are covered by the National Health Service, which is funded by general taxation. Also, the cost of living varies significantly from country to country, thereby making comparisons even more problematic.