I’ve been wondering , what would’ve been the fate of the New York, Ontario & Western had it managed to last 19 more years, long enough to be included in Conrail. My guess is Conrail would’ve found the cost to modernize the O&W and bring to a good state of repair prohibitive. a few viable portions may have been spun off as short lines but the lions share would still be abandoned.
what do you guys think?
My guess it would have abandoned by Conrail at some point. But its all conjecture.
Anthicite Coal to the lakes was enventulay abandoned by other carriers as well. The Pennsy line to Sodus Bay and now Pennsy (NS) Line to Ashtabula is now being mothballed.
Probably abandonment of most of it, given the root causes of its decline. Would likely have wound up with a more varied diesel roster had it lasted through the 60s and into the 70s, since the F3s and FTs wouldn’t have made it that far. Maybe some second-hand GP7s or 9s from somewhere? Maybe some second-hand NYC GP40s?
I think I’ve seen the “Old and Weary” described as a railroad from nowhere to nowhere.
The O&W was an also-ran in virtually all of its markets. And none of its markets was all that big in the first place.
I also suspect that the Old Woman would have been an early casualty.
I don’t see HOW it could have lasted another 19 years.
Discounting the trackage rights the O&W had on the New York Central’s West Shore line to Weehawken NJ what tree68 said was correct, the O&W literally went from nowhere to nowhere, missing every major city in New York State, complicated story there. When the anthracite business started to dry up it really was all over but the shouting. They tried to make it as a bridge line but there was little luck there. As Don Ball said, “The O&W was a road that could not live.”
If you’re interested in the O&W there was a fine book on the 'road published in 1959 by William F. Helmer called “O&W (The long life and slow death of the New York, Ontario & Western Railway)” Fascinating book that tells the whole story.
I got mine from a rail hobby shop in Tappan, NY a few years ago. If you’re interested here’s the website: www.oldandwearycarshop.com
He had several copies in stock at the time, he may still have some if you’re interested. At any rate he’s a good source for all things “O&W.”
The “Old and Weary” still has quite a few fans, by the way.
Used available throuhh Amazon.
I figured Amazon might have it, but I’d rather “support your local hobby shop,” if you know what I mean.
Aside from some edge wear on the dust jacket the one I got from O & W Car Shop was in like-new condition, complete with separate fold-out maps of the route and route profile.
If the O&W could have hung on another 10 years, they might have got some consessions in the EL merger. Then if they had hung on to the Conrail era, they might have been picked up by the Susquehanna. And if the SuzyQ didn’t pick them up, some government agency might have been interested in saving the line from Middletown into the southern Catskills for future passenger use.
I checked the Old & Weary web site before suggesting Amazon. It appears they do not currently have any.
Another possibility is the ICC requiring the O&W be included in Penn Central much like the New Haven.
From Wikipedia - if the figures are near accurate - quite a declining curve to oblivion - no way it could have survived those traffic figures for another 19 years.
Revenue freight traffic, in millions of net ton-miles.
| Year | Traffic |
|---|---|
| 1925 | 688 |
| 1933 | 830 |
| 1944 | 957 |
| 1956 | 353 |
Source: ICC annual reports
Improved roads killed their passenger traffic to the Catskills’ Borscht Belt in the late 40s thru early 50s.
It wouldn’t be on the website, the stock of out-of-print books he gets (and he gets some doozys!) is a bit too variable to put on the site, best to call the shop or e-mail. At any rate the website’s under reconstruction after the move to the new location.
The Old and Weary Car Shop’s a place to visit if you’re in that part of the country. In addition to the model railroad items he gets in some great railroad artefacts, in addition to the books I mentioned. I try to get there every time I make a trip up north.
The proprietor’s a great guy, by the way.
The Knox Mine Distaster of 1959 was the end of coal in Eastern PA see-
Early rail-trail.
Kneiling noted a few times that “an outfit with no money was one of the first to dieselize”.
Off Topic?
Back in the mid Sixties we ‘Paced’ the Rutland from Rouses Point and the East Arlburg Trestle, thru to the St. Lawrence by car, the steel had just been lifted, finally, in several places.
The D&H Psgr still had the RS2s, for NOW. RS2 kicking cars in the yard. 12-Whl tender in the weeds.
Brockway single-axle tractor Diamonded for Railway Express by the depot.
( On another jaunt we followed the RUT to Burlington, down the Island Route. )
12-wheel Baggage cars in many sidings and spurs at freight sheds in small towns along the route. Stations still in place with all sorts of Public Time Tables from fallen flags galore, billing and other type of paper ‘stuff’ scattered over their offices and waiting rooms, all windows smashed and doors kicked in.
Still felt like trespassing, tho’.
One level crossing on a paved road still had it’s electric grade crossing flashers in place, but, steel removed in both directions.
We immediately turned it into a skit.
Pulled on the 4-way flashers, pulled right up to the stop line in the car, w/appropriate air brake sounds, opened right door, and proceeded across the trackless RoW in low gear.
Once across, closed the door, turned off the flashers, and marched up thru the gears to road speed.
We were the Greyhound. Safety First!
High Ball the Rutland!!!
Good for laughs all the way to Malone and Massena from Moores of the International Connection North to CNR across the line, lifted in the Twenties. Once South, too.
The Central had a fleet of RS3s @ Massena, some with Main Reservoirs on top of the hood.
All Oil and Junk, like the Central had become, and the SJ&LC WAS.
An old HH in a scrap yard, it once on the PC&N before/during the War???
( CV had DW&P 3600s in @ St. Albans, VT., and a thru Psgr Train. )
On another outing, to see the Sharks AGAIN
The fact that NYO&W lasted until 1957 could be based in part on the provisions of Chapter 77 of the Bankruptcy Act, which governed railroad bankruptcy proceedings. The ICC had final say over any Plan Of Reorganization, which tended to drag things out as the creditors had to come up with a plan that would preserve the railroad as an operating entity while accepting a lot less equity in the new firm than they would like.
That was just the northern field. The middle field and southern fields are both still active.
Don’t those areas produce primarily Bituminous coal rather than Anthracite?