There was only one segment of the Milwaukee Pacific extension that should have been kept - Easton, WA to Maple Valley (and on to Black River via BN) - and it was after 1980…BN kept it and then foolishly abandoned it. The rest of the Milwaukee line across Montana and the eastern part of Washington: way too many severe grades to interest any other railroading entity.
But, with regard to coal (and now oil) trains running north of Everett, WA to Fidalgo/Anacortes and Roberts Bank on the former Great Northern line toward Vancouver, BC, a far shorter (and no steeper) route between Spokane and Everett would be available if some of these abandoned lines could come back:
Spokane to Pasco, ex SP&S via Washtucna (see other postings on this elsewhere on this thread)
Pasco to Easton, ex-NP via Yakima (currently in service)
Easton to Monroe, ex-MILW via Snoqualmie Pass, Cedar Falls, and Carnation.
Monroe to Everett, ex-GN (currently in service).
Such a routing would incorporate a maximum grade of less than 1 percent with missing most of the Western Washington population centers the trains travel through now.
As for some routes that some people wish were still around today, I would opt for some branch lines in Western North Dakota where the Bakken oil boom is in full gear. Watford City, like Williston, is right in the middle of the activity. I would imagine if the ex-GN branchline from Fairview, Montana to there would still be in, it
I would like to know if the CSX or a shortline could have both a DOUBLE TRACK railroad and THE SILVER COMET TRAIL on the same right of way with the tracks on one side and the rail trail on the other side. The current SILVER COMET TRAIL is where the former SAL tracks were located before the 1990 abandonment by CSX. I feel that there could eventually be rail service on this line (SAL BIRMINGHAM-ATLANTA) along with a SHIFTED Silver Comet Trail. The SCT is a popular RAILS to TRAILS park which I think should co-exist with a double track railroad. The former SAL Atlanta Birmingham line was single track with passing sidings along the way. Two double track segments were from HICKS ROAD to BROOKWOOD DRIVE and from CARTER ROAD to OLD LOST MOUNTAIN ROAD in COBB COUNTY, Georgia. David Briel A CSX fallen flags fan.
Back in August a CSX coal train derailed in Ellicott, Maryland and as a result killed two young women who were tresspassing. Despite our safety record railroads are not mere backdrops of their settings. Railroads are heavy industry. Heavy industry and non-accountable citizens do not mix. Walking trails have no place beside railroads; it’s tantamount to placing a volleyball net on the grounds of a high-voltage substation. There are some places where people need to be discouraged from loitering.
The high speed planners need to decide if a HSR would work from CUS to Champaign instead of the GM&O Joliet route. It would be nice to have something to connect Champaign with Bloomington & on west to Peoria. This has been a dream since the demise of the Peoria Rocket. This also has been a dream for the planners wanting a 3rd airport in the Peotone area.
Glen: The Peotone/Will County line in question is ex-MILW-TH&SE. Champaign to Bloomington to Peoria is P&E-CCC&StL-NYC-PC-CR(barely)-N&W-NS with a little CSX on the Champaign end. None were Rocky Mountain Rocket west or south of Joliet.(see the Keep-Away comments on this thread)…allignment at all three cities mentioned is nowhere near high-spead compliant. With the stupid stunt that IDOT did earlier this year, trying solve the budget problem by killing off the folks (bugetary wise) in IL that could actually railroad on their staff, leaves the future of HSR in IL on very shaky ground. What’s left is politicians and planners - neither has a clue. CHI-StL will be as far as it goes, probably for several generations.
Trails and operating railroads do not co-exist. Period. Railroads cannot be protected against the irresponsible bi-ped public. Fences and walls cannot protect pedestrians against the possible laws of physics. (and for that matter the personal injury lawyers willing to represent those who refuse to be personally responsible for their own actions) After two years of looking at the issue, AREMA decided the best policy was to keep one away from the other with no shared corridor, ie-discourage the shared corridor idea.
Mudchicken is right - the W&OD is steep and crooked, so probably would be better suited to light-rail type vehicles rather than heavy-rail commuter trains. Power requirements would be high, and speeds would not. I’ve walked the trail from end to end, and it would be no joke to run rail vehicles over restored track.
With all due respect, you’re wrong. The North Shore Line mentioned in the earlier posts has had a trail on it for years, and in many places it’s just across a short fence from the busy UP-North (nee C&NW) Metra commuter line. Here – http://home.comcast.net/~phyilla1/sstrails/railswithtrails.html – is a webpage listing several examples of trails alongside active rail lines, including at least one example without a fence between the trail and a catenary-powered rail line.
No, the risk of a pedestrian blundering in front of a train cannot be eliminated. It also can’t be eliminated on rail lines that don’t have a trail next to them, especially ones that can’t be “sealed” against people because they carry people as, umm, passengers. I read a heck of a lot more media accounts in metropolitan Chicago of incidents of (1) “bi-peds” and motorists fatally ignoring signaled rail crossings, or (2) “rightful” rail passengers falling or jumping off the platform onto the tracks, than I ever have of trail-using joggers, cyclists, or skaters having a run-in with a train.
At risk of veering slightly off topic as the Toledo, Peoria & Western is not abandoned; once this road was jointly owned by ATSF and PRR. The east-west road once offered a bypass around Chicago conecting Logansport, Indiana and Fort Madison, Iowa. The PRR half went to PC and then CR which sold out to ATSF. However, CR had no desire to interchange at Logansport and today most of it is a component of RailAmerica/G&W. As traffic increases how long before this gets a second look as a bypass around Chicago?
At risk of veering slightly off topic as the Toledo, Peoria & Western is not abandoned; once this road was jointly owned by ATSF and PRR. The east-west road once offered a bypass around Chicago conecting Logansport, Indiana and Fort Madison, Iowa. The PRR half went to PC and then CR which sold out to ATSF. However, CR had no desire to interchange at Logansport and today most of it is a component of RailAmerica/G&W. As traffic increases how long before this gets a second look as a bypass around Chicago.
This idea has come up a lot since TP&W regained its independence from AT&SF in 1989. I know of some attempts to revive the line as a bridge route for intermodal traffic - an experimental Los Angeles-Atlanta double stack service routed ATSF-(Ft. Madison)-TPW-(Watseka)-CSXT c. 1991 being one. Plans for an offline ATSF terminal at Cincinnati, Ohio prior to the BNSF merger was another (would’ve involved shortlines like CIND and CERA, and Conrail trackage rights). TP&W even handled a lot of the BNSF-NS Peoria interchange traffic between Galesburg and Peoria in the late 1990s. Although it acted as a haulage agent for BNSF, such could be considered "bridge traffic.
Problem with the TP&W is that it doesn’t make an efficient bypass - 25mph maximum speeds, some 10mph restrictions and numerous at-grade crossings. That could change if Class I’s like BNSF and NS made a deal with future owner G&W to fund upgrades and divert daily merchandise trains, say between Galesburg and Bellevue, Ohio. Could it happen in the near future? Certainly. Do I believe it will? Not really.
Did not know about the ATSF-CSX experiment of the early 1990’s. The distance between just Peoria and Logansport is about 170 miles. A rehab to Class 3 would come close to 9 digits. If the right “deal” could be reached, i.e. tax breaks, it could be possible. Because it crosses two states then not likely.
Contrary to the comment a few posts above, bike trails and railroads DO coexist, at least in my neck of the woods. On the outskirts of Spokane, WA, the Fish Lake Trail runs next to, between, and beneath active BNSF and UP main lines. The north trail segment, using former UP/MILW right of way, runs from Scribner north to a new trailhead situated almost beneath the point where the Latah Creek Bridge splits into a Y shape. It passes under active BNSF track at three points, and is sandwiched tightly between active BNSF tracks through the town of Marshall, though on slightly different elevations. The south trail segment has a trailhead at Fish Lake where the parking lot and picnic tables are only about 10 feet from the ballast of UP’s Ayer Sub. From there, the trail runs south on former BN (SP&S) right of way to South Cheney, passing under BNSF and UP track along the way, and situated only a few feet from UP much of the way. Most of this trail/rail intermingling takes place in remote, wooded canyon country. Connecting the two halves of the trail will require a new bike trail underpass/overpass about two miles north of Fish Lake, between UP Jct. and Lakeside Jct.
Did not know about the ATSF-CSX experiment of the early 1990’s.
It was an experiment. I think TP&W handled a few five-unit double stack cars before parties decided not to continue. I can’t remember the reason.
The distance between just Peoria and Logansport is about 170 miles. A rehab to Class 3 would come close to 9 digits. If the right “deal” could be reached, i.e. tax breaks, it could be possible. Because it crosses two states then not likely.
I was thinking along the lines of what NS is doing with the West Tennessee Railroad and haulage rights on CN to create a short cut between Illinois and the deep south. BNSF could obtain (pending STB approval) haulage rights on TP&W between East Peoria and Logansport and fund track upgades to Class 3 standards (40mph). This would allow BNSF to avoid “short-hauling” itself. Obviously, Return-On-Investment would be required. I don’t see it happening in the near future though.
Regarding the TP&W. Didn’t the TP&W actually build what became the PRR from Logansport to Marion, OH?
When ATSF was exploring a takeover of EL, they also controlled TP&W. What might exist today from an ATSF/EL merger with the TP&W being used as a Chicago bypass route running from Marion to Galesburg?
ATSF/EL would control the intermodal market between NY and the Northeast and the West Coast, because no other interline combination could match their timetable that avoided the terminal delays of Chicago. I could see the only westbound traffic off the EL going to Chicago being for the possible third merger partner MILW as it headed to Pacific Northwest destinations.
Regarding the TP&W. Didn’t the TP&W actually build what became the PRR from Logansport to Marion, OH?
When ATSF was exploring a takeover of EL, they also controlled TP&W. What might exist today from an ATSF/EL merger with the TP&W being used as a Chicago bypass route running from Marion to Galesburg?
ATSF/EL would control the intermodal market between NY and the Northeast and the West Coast, because no other interline combination could match their timetable that avoided the terminal delays of Chicago. I could see the only westbound traffic off the EL going to Chicago being for the possible third merger partner MILW as it headed to Pacific Northwest destinations.
PRR served Marion, Ohio on its Columbus-Sandusky line, not from Logansport. If AT&SF could have acquired EL, it would have made things interesting for sure. But there was no link between TP&W and EL, so AT&SF-EL traffic would have been routed via Chicago.
NS is funding track upgrades on WTNN between Fulton, KY and Corinth, MS to handle new overhead traffic as part of the Mid America Corridor Initiative with CN (ex-IC).
Salfan – You’re right . . . ionsofar as ‘heavy’ rail is concerned, but I’m talking about light rail - as in establishing a commuter service to this heavily suburbanized corridor. Besides continuing straight into the DC area it could also branch off to the Dulles Airport area where there are many employment centers and, it could link with the METRO which is being built out to Dulles. A win-win in so many ways.
There is also a walking trail next to a railroad in the Portland, Oregon area; cannot remember exactly where or what railroad, I haven’t been in the Pacific Northwest this century. I would be interested in the details of the indemnification deal the railroads and local governments entered to allow this to happen.
Steering back toward topic and having recently finished H. Roger Grant’s Rails Through the Wiregrass (required reading for the southern railfan), how would an intact Georgia & Florida Railroad fit into today’s NS network? Northeast to Florida traffic has to travel via Atlanta. The G&F could have provided a shortcut by turning south at Charlotte and running through Augusta to Valdosta. When the Southern acquired