Yes that is an invaulabale reference book, it’s in 2 volumes, and covers everything you could ever think of about passenger cars. His book on frieght cars is also highly recommended.
Mr. White worked for many years doing research on Railroads for the Smithsonian, digging into long lost materials and patents to find everything about Older railroad Rolling stock. if there’s ever anyone that would eb considered a Guru in Rolling stock, it’s Mr. white.
His books are well worth the cost.
Jay
Gary,
I’ve pulled out my copy of White’s book. Mine is an early hard cover version, in one volume, 700 big pages. On page 368 are two good photos of the funeral car itself. White says the body was 42 feet long (which would not normally include the platforms). So if we add say three feet for each platform, and maybe one foot for each coupler (it would have had link and pin couplers, shorter than present day knuckle type couplers).
Anyway, that’s me rationalising White’s figure into mine! The body iself looks very much like the somewhat later cars available in HO (or N), even the inexpensive Bachmann cars. It would be neccessary to build a new flatter roof with the distictive raised “lantern” or “Clerestory”. It might be possible to use two relatively short trucks from these early cars with a beam linking them to a single pivot each end on the car (this would be closer the centre than the normal pivot). The second photo in White, and the photo of the truck model in the link above might help.
There are many photos of the train, which might help you make up the rest of the train. One of the standard 4-4-0s could be used as the locomotive, with decoration based on the photographs.
Apparently, the car was sold to Union Pacific (who else!)
All the best,
Peter
Don;t forget the Mantua “General” as possible power for the train.
By the way as to the posting that there were no sleeping cars in 1865 – I have an old pass for “sleeping cars” on the Chicago and Galena Union, dated 1856. They were not Pullmans of course - probably crude benches – but such cars did exist
Dave Nelson
Dave, never said there were no sleepers in the 1850’s, there were sleepers, but most were no longer than 40-42’ in length. it was rare to see a 50’ car in the 1850’s as the underframe trusses were made of wood, it wasn’t until the late 1860’s that steel started to become the standard for the underframe trusses and thus longer cars.
Jay
Another question from the novice. If I start buying cars from various sources, like Ebay, flea markets, yard sales, what do I do about different couplings they all might have? Is there a standard type I can replace them all with, including the engine? Still haven’t found that Lincoln Funeral Car.
Thanks again
gary
Gary go to www.kadee.com to see if they have a conversion for that type car. the recommended standard is their #5 or #58, both are interchangeable. Kadee recommends some of their other coouplers for specific applications (IE the cow catcher on a steamer needs a longer shank).
Jay
Of course, Kadee couplers would not be accurate for the prototype (in the 1860’s, link-and-pin couplers were still pretty much universal) but Kadees are the way to go–they are the standard by which other couplers are measured, and if you’re going to have one anachronism in this train, let Kadee couplers be it. Besides, it’s pretty much impossible to do link-and-pin coupling in HO scale!!
Someone … maybe Model Engineering Works, maybe Kemtron – used to make a link and pin coupler in HO. How well it worked I have no idea.
One thought would be to use N scale knuckle couplers to keep them inconspicuous.
I remember reading that when the Civil War engine The General was readied for excursion service during the Civil War Centennial they needed to find a knuckle coupler that would fit – it had to be small. They ended up taking one from a Burro crane car.
Dave Nelson
Novice here. Can you believe I found a Lincoln Funeral Car on Ebay and am shocked. The bid is up to $102.00 and the reserve has not been met yet. It is a Pocher product, is this some kind of highly collectable manufacturer or is this a rip?
Thanks
Gary
Pocher’s a fairly obscure brand name…not really highly collectable so much as just rare because it’s kind of an oddball thing.
Whether or not you bid on that depends on whether it’s worth it to you to spend over $100 on a Lincoln funeral car.
I can’t really tell if the car is brass or not–$100 for a brass passenger car isn’t out of line.
Warranties,
My recollection is that “Pocher” was a premium brand used by Rivarossi, (like Lexus being made by Toyota) and they did make highly detailed models of early American locomotives, mainly Virginia and Truckee 4-4-0s and a 2-4-0 (“Bowker”). They were limited production, but they certainly weren’t made of brass.
They did look nice, but at that price, I’d want to be sure it was in good order and the one I wanted. Is it illustrated?
Peter
I suspect not too many of those Lincoln funeral cars were sold back in the 1960s when they were first offered – I think they sold then for about $4. AHM also offered a brightly colored circus or wild west show car at the time that I suspect also has a certain collector’s value mainly because so few were sold.
But I recall seeing a Lincoln funeral car at the DuPage swap meet just a few years ago and I think the guy wanted $15 bucks for it – sometimes things get strange on e-bay … I would try to exhaust the swap meet market before I’d pay $100 for what in the last analysis is still just a plastic car originally offered to the beginners / toy market.
Dave Nelson
A lot of good information given here. For the novice, let me perhaps clarify that you will see products manufactured by Rivarossi under the names of Pocher and AHM as well as Rivarossi. These were the results of marketing and distribution agreements; Pocher was NOT a “Lexus” brand. IHC is marketing the old Rivarossi 4-4-0s under their own name; were at first being made for them in the Czech Republic but I think are now being made in China. These models do not run as well as the original Rivarossi if running qualities are important to you.
I’m surprised that nobody has mentioned the Rivarossi passenger and baggage cars based on Virginia and Truckee prototypes. No longer in production but easy to find on E-Bay and at gtrain shows, and reasonably priced. Although the clerestory roofs are not of the correct style for the Lincoln train, they are the correct length and body style, and are nicely made for plastic. Replacing the roofs would not be difficult.
Novice here (or should that be Nuisance?) Well i still have not found a Lincoln Funeral Car yet. But what really is getting to me is all the different prices between brands. Is a Markle and/or Ahern or whatever that much better? Cannot believe the price spreads here. Is there a way to learn in writing all about these different manufacturers?
Thanks
gary
Warranties,
Model trains are like cars. You can pay anything you like for a car, from a basic Hyundai Accent to a Rolls Royce Phantom. Both will get to the mall and home with your weekly groceries, but they are different. Which is the right one for you depends on your means and your expectations. There are comments and questions about locomotives on lots of threads here, but most seem to suggest that the lower middle (Proto1000, Bachmann Spectrum) give you good detail and good running. Broadway Limited give you inbuilt sound and digital decoders - if that sounds like a Rolls Royce, it might not be for you.
Rails5’ comments are right about the Rivarossi cars. The Lincoln train car sides and ends are very like the Rivarossi cars, but you would need to change the roof and trucks. I think the Bachmann cars might do as well, but try to find them and check against the photos.
You are looking for a model of a civil war era 4-4-0, and there aren’t many of those, and Bachmann and Rivarossi are the most common. If you can find one that you like, and it test runs well, it will probably do. But with the “basic” Bachmann trains (made in China) sometimes quality control isn’t that good, and it pays to test run it first (Or deal with a supplier that will replace it if it doesn’t meet your standard).
My comments about Pocher referred to their marketing in Europe. In the USA, AHM, who imported them, didn’t price them as high as in other markets. In Japan, Lexus cars are sold just as Toyotas (with different names). The Lexus coupe was called the Toyota Soarer. It was the same car exactly.
Peter
Thanks for the responce Peter, lots of good stuff there. I travel a great deal in my business and have been stopping at Hobby Shops all over. The more I do, the more confused I get. When it comes to tracks, it seems some like the new style with the base attached…probably because they like to sell them. Others tell me to use only brass and cork. Some told me to use other type tracks. Must be about what they have the most of in stock…or maybe I’m paranoid.
Gary (Novice)
Gary,
While this isn’t the current topic, with track, it depends how you will use it. If you are just starting out, you might want to try different track arrangements to see what suits you, and sectional track will allow that. It does limit you regarding curve radius and dimensions. Flexible track gives you the ability to curve and place the track exactly where you want, but needs to be fixed down straight away before you can run a train.
If you will be changing things, the track with attached base is stronger and locks together better. Remember that the little metal rail joiners carry the power current as well as holding sectional track together. They are easily damaged, and can cause poor running if they don’t make good electrical contact. Most track with base attached has other connectors to hold the rails together, to take the stress off the rail connectors. One of my friends had used the conventional sectional track (he was a bit rough with it) but when he changed over to track with the base attached, his trains ran better.
It is worth getting corrosion resistant track, stainless steel (called nickel silver sometimes) is better electrically than brass or plated ordinary steel. When you add scenery and ground covering, the type of track is less obvious anyway. Just get something that won’t rust, and is strong enough for what you want to do!
Peter
Novice here. Finally won a Lincoln funeral car on Ebay…paid a ransom for it. Things have changed…not gonna do a layout just yet, but am going to display cars etc on shelves. Why, you may ask? Well unfortunately I have recently been fascinated by such things as Roco, Liliput etc etc etc. Are these things that much better than others. The prices are unreal. What is the pecking order here, whose on first, second, third??
Anyway, thanks for all the previous advice and am looking forward to any responces. Should this different shift be on a new post??
Gary
A very interesting topic. February ‘95 MR had a good article on Lincoln’s funeral train with scale drawings of the 4-4-0 Nashville and the funeral car. The car had “extra wide” wheel tread so that it could be used on both standard and 5’ gauge.
I also read recently, as already mentioned, that Pullman’s Pioneer was used during the last part of the trip, this being, although a bit macabre, a real boon for Pullman.