Speed is only one part of the equation.
Stations have to be accessible. I actually think airports along the NEC are more accessible then the Amtrak train stations. Further, limited parking around Amtrak stations compared to extensive parking at most of the airports…even shuttle lots.
Schedules have to be convenient.
Prices have to be competitive with driving.
Also, as a business or leisure traveler…where do I go to rent a car at an Amtrak station on the NEC?
It would be useful to hear from current, even only occasional users of services in the NEC region, train, car or plane.
Uber is a thing.
There was a chance I would have to go to center city Philly. It still may happen here soon. I could drive easily, or I could take Amtrak. I’d choose the latter because driving into Philly sucks. Then parking, then driving home, etc. Once in Philly I could take one of two septa ways to go where I needed to go. Or uber if something happened to septa service. Is it quicker all said and done? Depends on traffic, but that is not the main consideration in my case.
[quote=“zugmann, post:23, topic:415203”]
Uber is a thing.
There was a chance I would have to go to center city Philly. It still may happen here soon. I could drive easily, or I could take Amtrak. I’d choose the latter because driving into Philly sucks. Then parking, then driving home, etc. Once in Philly I could take one of two septa ways to go where I needed to go. Or uber if something happened to septa service. Is it quicker all said and done? Depends on traffic, but that is not the main consideration in my case.
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I think they already have a chunk of the city to city market. I think we are talking about luring the drivers between the cities, which includes suburbs.
In my case, I will never take Uber due to the risk of the whole Wheel of Fortune approach with the driver. Though I know some people have no issues with that. I’ve had Uber cancel on me or the driver just change their mind at near the last min. Also, had some pretty horrible rides on Uber…one in Miami less than a year ago where the driver could not understand English and just stuck a cell phone in my face to translate (I ended up giving them in broken Spanish driving instructions on how to get to the destination). So Uber reads great but has risks if your a business traveler.
Specific to the NEC. Washington Union Station is pretty horrible with long walks to the train. Station, Philadelphia has narrow platforms (worse than riding a subway). I did Philadelphia intermodally, fly-in then switch to train station (holy crap!..took forever). WUS is a very long walk from train to street curb In DC, confusing if you never been there before. So there are issues with trying to incorporate the NEC into business travel plans. I believe Wilmington, DE sucks as well as the street level is below the station as I remember it. Kingston, RI…middle of nowhere. Try taking the NEC to Newport, RI…oh wait…it doesn’t go there. Boston South Station sucks. The best part is trying to justify Amtrak NEC on a business expense report because it is usually NOT the lowest cost or most direct option.
I would like the whole “Field of Dreams” approach of just increasing speed by itself to work with the NEC and that higher speed alone would draw people in from the parallel freeways. I don’t see that happening much. City Center to City Center you might marginally increase the travelers riding the train, potentially.
A little off topic but need to bring it up. If you ever travel to Chicago and use a cab or Uber beware of the infamous Wacker Drive disorientation attempts. Some cabs or Ubers will attempt to take you down to lower Wacker Drive (below street level street) in an attempt to disorient you to the city (they will say it is faster and if you know the street layout, not so much in most cases). It’s a method of increasing your cab fare and ripping you off. They tried it twice with me so far. Just tell them to pause the meter or your not paying. I don’t know who started that scam but the City of Chicago should have busted it long ago.
Wow, I’d not heard that before, but it has been years since I worked downtown and took cabs everywhere around the Loop and surrounding areas.
As I lifelong Chicagoan, whenever I drove my own car or a rental car, Lower Wacker Drive was the route to take to avoid congestion in the Loop.
An out-of town traveler would be well advised to have some idea how long it takes to get from one location to another.
Rich
My experiences with Uber around the Loop, Near North and Northwestern and Union stations in recent years have been completely positive, but I guess I’m not targeted as someone unfamiliar with the territory. (Uber or Lyft drivers and cabbies can spot them) Come to think of it, I have never had a bad experience with Uber drivers in several other cities. Of course some folks have poor luck wherever they travel, reasons unknown.
About a decade ago, I had to go to Philadelphia for a deposition in a personal injury/death case for the company. My home’s location make driving to Philly an ‘easier’ trip than going to Baltimore City to catch Amtrak. I will say driving in Philly was a unique and new experience - driving in Broad Blvd. (I think) where people were parking in the paved median of the roadway. Finally found a parking garage near the address I had been given for the deposition only to find out when I went to that address that the deposition location had been moved about four blocks away. Once parked until I was ready to leave was about three hours and the fee for where I was parked was over $15.
Parking garages in the Loop these days can range from $10-40 per hour. Grant Park rates vary greatly.
That brings back memories of when I was in the Army being sent to McGuire AFB to sit in transient barracks for three weeks. So rented a car with a few other guys to see Atlantic City and Philly. Getting to Independence Hall was a nightmare as well as parking. Atlantic City was mostly a parking lot or city of parking garages by comparison back then. 
Every red spot is a car rental place
Boston
As for parking I use Spot Hero, Park Angels, Park Whiz. Literally a dozen of garages within a few blocks of every NEC station.
[quote=“JL_Chicago, post:31, topic:415203”]
As for parking I use Spot Hero, Park Angels, Park Whiz. Literally a dozen of garages within a few blocks of every NEC station.
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In the large cities they are all usually external to the train station. In a lot of cases those are called LOCAL rental car places and the internet might say they are open but some on the internet that say they are open are actually closed or no longer rent to business traveler some do not rent to the liesure traveler (they are intended for replacements for wreck damaged POV’s…so some only do insurance rentals). Second your using tunnel vision here. I mentioned before Big City Downtown to Big City Downtown is not really the market your dealing with here.
Second, the ala carte external to the train station stuff is great for railfans. You do not have to convince but even if it was me I wouldn’t go for any of that. Only time I am going to ever take the NEC these days is the Big City to Big City trip where the rental car is not needed.
Third, Remember the average traveler is comparing Airport service or driving in their own car. They are not a railfan nor are they a rail employee. They are going to weigh in their head the alternatives, balance them and pick which one is most convenient for them with the least amount of risk or uncertainty versus blowing their vacation or business trip just so they can ride the train. They are also going to fit in their heads which mode allows them to maximize their vacation time if it is leisure travel.
You have to get the person driving on I-95 to weigh the decision in their heads which mode is better for them (without any pre-bias for rail as we see commonly in TRAINS forum). They are going to compare the airport experience and possibly rail experience but you will need to level the playing field a lot more than say…walk a few blocks outside and rent a car here or walk a few blocks over there from parking, etc, etc. That might all work for you. Ala Carte does not work for me and generally will probably not work for a driver on I-95 that is NOT driving big city downtown to big city downtown.
BTW, this is also how rental car locations work in Chicago as well. Rental Car location in a hotel? Generally they limit rentals to hotel guests only. Rental car location near a major car dealership, generally insurance rentals or car dealership clients only. Not always the case in every situation but generally you cannot depend on the local car rental places as much as you can a large centrally located multi-vendor location like the airport. Post pandemic, some of the internet listed local locations listed as open are actually closed and consolidated now. I could tell you stories about local rental car locations in Schaumburg, IL (Chicago suburb). Note the hours of open difference as well vs big city airport. Local place, your lucky if the person on duty is not also the person that cleans the cars and fills them with gas…meaning up to an hour of nobody behind the counter.
Now lets say you try to use one of the restricted locations above. Approx a few days before your travel date they will call you and tell you to change your reservation as they either do not handle liesure travelers from out of town or they will tell you the location is no longer open. Had that happen to me more than once with Enterprise and Hertz. Then it is a scramble to find a car available in your preference category a few days before the trip. So lesson here is always call and confirm your rental car reservation if it is not at a big airport location.
Now what is interesting about all this. Canada, you rent from Hertz in train station. Generally they are very flexible and you can even drop off at a different train station or even in a big city rental car place. So apparently Canada is not as restrictive with car rental agency rules.
For people that are comfortable walking around a big city there are plenty of car rental and car parking spots near big city train stations. And thus training is a viable alternative to flying. I’ve done both and never had any issues.
I disagree. Fine to hold that personal opinion yourself but I am pretty confident it is not the majority opinion outside of the TRAINS forum. Which is the premise of me disagreeing with the Field of Dreams approach to just saying all one has to worry about is the train speed (“build it and they will come”) and once you have a higher speed your marketing and operational issues are over.
NEC trains were out of the question when I had East Coast projects in most cases not related to speed but rather the access the rail line and the schedules never meshed with planning.
As I requested earlier in this thread, let’s hear from not-yet-retired folks who actually live in the NEC area. Do they use Amtrak or drive for business trips?
For other readers of this forum I offer to you that car parks and car rentals near big city train stations are widely available. Capitalists seeking a profit supply that demand. Even on the Northeast Corridor. So if you want to take the train no need to worry. Just book ahead same as you would do for flying to get the best pricing and availability.
Expedia, Travelocity, Priceline etc for rentals.
Spot Hero, Park Whiz, Spot Angels etc for parking.
Happy travels.
Please post and tell us of your experiences.
Thank you.
I recently had reason to travel from upstate NY to Farmingdale, NY (on Long Island) for business. I rode Amtrak to NY Penn Station, the LIRR (MTA) to Farmingdale, then Uber to the hotel. The whole thing probably takes about one more hour than driving, based on Google drive time estimates (6.5 vs. 5.5 hours). But I don’t have to sit in a car and pay attention the entire time, I can be productive with my laptop on the train (if I choose), and don’t have to deal with NYC traffic, which I am not used to. The whole thing was quite easy, relaxing, and less expensive than an airplane and rental car. I know none of this is NEC, but the point is RR travel, even at the modest speeds of Empire Service trains, can be a viable alternative.
