I just completed an old Eastern Car Works (formerly sold by Alco Models and a few others) P70 coach kit. Problem is, it’s much too light and I need to weight it. What I was thinking of doing, is installing some metal coach seats. Are these still available? I’m wondering, since all I can find locally are plastic seats. Any help is appreciated.
BTW, I improved the ECW kit a bit. I drilled out the truck bolsters, and tapped them for a 2-56 screw. With that done, I did the same to the coupler pads. That way, it’s easier to replace parts
I have 4 New Haven commuter coach kits from Eastern Car Works. They’re still new in the box.
As mentioned above, I use BB pellets to fill in any pockets in passenger car floors, such as the ones from Rivorossi and Walthers.
However, these cars are far too light. I’m going to use flat weight bars on the floors.
While hobby shops sell these, a cheap alternative is to go to a machine shop or a , hardware store where metal plates and bars are available for fabrication in various thicknesses. I prefer to use steel bars that are between 1/16" to 1/8" thick. You can cut the desired lengths and widths with a Die Grinder or Dremel Rotory tool.
I have seen steel bars about 1" wide at Home Depot. They sell for less than $10.
Welding shops are great because they often have left over pieces of scrap bar metal that’s perfect as model railroad weights. Good manners can net you some bars.
For weight on my cars I use the A-Line 1/2 oz weights with the double sided tabe on them. I usually add an ounce over each truck. The weights are hidden in the interior and using creative painting. By the time you add interiors and underbody detail the car has decent weight to it. I definately don’t play by NMRA rules on weight for passenger cars. The train I am modeling right now is 17 cars long and gets heavy quick. And I believe the metal seats are no longer available (hopefully I am worng), but Red Cap Line makes some awesome seats.
If I remember correctly, you could hide a bunch of weight in the floor of an ECW car in the molded in underbody details.
I guess AMB is still putting 'em out. They are a pain to clean up, but worth it. I left the link to Terminal Hobby Shop for the seats.
For cheap weights, drop by your local tire shop and pick up their used wheel weights. Their a lead alloy. Ma***hem flat using a hammer to the right thickness and width. Lead is easy to work with.
Make SURE you wash your hands BEFORE you work with the car, as you’ll have black crud on your hands. Also wash your hands AGAIn when you’re all done to avoid any chance of lead poisoning. Basic cleanliness will avoid this problem.
As an alternative, you can buy a bag of lead shot for relaoding shotgun shells. The larger shot number gives the smallest shot size. The smaller the shot size the more weight you can squeeze into a given area.
If you need to really squeeze some weight into odd/ tight spots, try lead wool. I generally use sheet lead(flashing), the kind found at builders supplies. The lead can be scored for cutting or scored and fan folded. Place it securely with Walthers Goo. Don’t overlook some of the frame beams on rolling stock, and undercarriage details on passenger, they are usually hollow.
Don’t bother w/ the prepackaged stick on weights from your LHS, stop by an auto parts and ask for 1/4 oz stick ons.
Bob K.
Another decent source for metal weights: Machine Shops and Fabrication Shops.
Because they usually serve industrial customers we often drive by them and ignore them. Even though they often sell their leftover metal for scrap dollars, there are often leftover 1/8" or 3/16" steel bar pieces in 1 to 2 foot lengths laying around the shop floor or near the scrap dumpster.
If approached respectfully, shop owners might be willing to give a couple of scrap pieces away.
First, the weight must be balanced side to side or the car will have a tendency to lean and more prone to derailment. That is one reason filling the detail pockets is not the best idea as they are rarely if ever centered or balanced.
Second, from a long discussion with a physics professor and modeler, the most effective place for weight is directly over the truck. That way all the weight is on the wheels and not spread the length of the car. Leverage will lessen the effect of the weight (reverse of the crowbar theory).
You can’t always get right over the truck, but closer is hetter. I weight the vestibules and restrooms of plastic passenger cars with either sticky weights or bar stock and double sided tape. By the way. sticky weights are much cheaper at the auto parts stores in boxes of a couple pounds - same thing Aline sells.
I try my best to keep the weights as close to being over the trucks as possible. And as far as using “detail pockets”, the Eastern Car Works floor has a water tank that runs smack down the middle of the floor, and is a great place to add weight. I do realize that the weights are available elsewhere, it is just easier for me to buy them at my LHS since I am already there. I don’t mind spending the extra money to support the ole’ LHS.[:D]
#9 lead shot is what I use for weight. But, if you get good metal wheels and get the cars well balanced, I do not weight passenger cars to anywhere near the NMRA standard, and they run fine and are a lot easier for the loco to pull.
Go back and talk to that physics professor some more. 4 oz. in the middle, or 2 oz. at both ends, or four 1 oz. weights evenly spaced (assuming we are at the same height for all, and a rigid floor) do exactly the same thing, as I am sure he will tell you. Unless you are planning on going around tight radius curves at extremely high speed you shouldn’t have to worry about the moment of inertia.
Actually Virginian you are wrong according to my source. The weight in the middle of the car, when deflected from the end is at a disadvantage because of the lever effect. Only part of the weight is lifted from the truck at the end, which is wgere a derail occurs. Cars do not derail in the middle.
jsoderq, I would say that your source is wrong. I agree with "Virginian". There is no way the car or the trucks can “know” or can tell where the weight is located. The end result of adding weight is a new total weight and a new center of gravity. A low center of gravity (centered between the trucks) is always the best solution.
I also agree that most people use too much weight in passenger cars and all rolling stock in general.
The NMRA weight guidelines are decades old and out of touch with reality.
On an Eastern Car Works car, be careful your weight does not deflect that rather flimsy floor. An IHC car interior glued down reinforced mine pretty well.
Simple-to-handle, non-toxic weights, for just a few pennies:
A few pennies.
Granted the round discs don’t mold like malleable lead, but they do stack nicely and can be caulked into permanent installations.
The key to good tracking is to keep the center of gravity of the entire car centered between the rails, centered between the trucks and as low as possible. This can be achieved with a single lead slug amidships, a steel bar the length of the car or a stack of pennies in each vestibule. Unless the car frame is dangerously limber, the physics will be the same.
Also, the same weighting principles apply to both passenger and freight cars. In HO, that’s 1/2 ounce, plus 1/2 ounce per inch of length.
I have to agree with Virginian here. As an over the road “flat-bed” trucker, I deal with weight every day and where it’s located on the trailer as we are limited on our gross weight and the weight on each axle. I do agree somewhat with your professor friend, but you have been somewhat misinformed here. I’ll try to explain here. I know the numbers here are not actual weights you would put in a model, but I use them for demonstration only. Lets say you have 10 oz of weight place directly over a truck. If you raise that end you are raising the full 10 oz’s of weight. Now, if that 10 oz weight is in the center of the car and with your “lever” theory, you would only be lifting 5 oz’s of weight. AH-HAH, the professor is right. WRONG!!! Because we want 10 0z’s of weight on each truck, we place 20 oz’s in the center of the car. We again pick up the end of the car, picking up half the weight in the center-- the same 10 oz’s we had before. Respectfully, Ken
I recently purchased an IHC vista dome knowing full well what I would be getting. I immediately swapped out the axle sets and added the smallish square metal weights that fit under the bay bottoms of those small red ore cars…directly over the trucks. These weights are probably about 4-5 oz each. The car still tracked poorly, and not at all exiting the slightly curved end of the points end of one turnout. Everything else I own is happy with that turnout.
So, I widened the gauge of the leading axle on the leading truck by about 10 thou outside the NMRA gauge’s grooves and found that it, too, became content with the turnout. Now I just have to fix the coupler.
