"Adequate warning devices",

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

Something else to watch for is if the gate comes down 15 feet from the rail it is closest to. The road alignment, the roughness of the crossings. All traffic control devices.

So the crossing where the girl was killed on the bicycle had the WRONG
(not adequate) active signals. How does the FRA, state, railroad
inspectors miss this minor detail?
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/legsregs/directives/fapg/cfr0646b.htm
(3) (I) “Adequate warning devices”, under Sec. 646.214(b)(2) or on
any project where Federal-aid funds participate in the installation of
the devices are to include automatic gates with flashing light signals
when one or more of the following conditions exist:

(A) Multiple main line railroad tracks.

(B) Multiple tracks at or in the vicinity of the crossing which may be
occupied by atrain or locomotive so as to obscure the movement of
another train approaching the crossing.

(C) High Speed train operation combined with limited sight distance at
either single or multiple track crossings.

(D) A combination of high speeds and moderately high volumes of highway
and railroad traffic.

(E) Either a high volume of vehicular traffic, high number of train
movements, substantial numbers of schoolbuses or trucks carrying
hazardous materials, nusually restricted sight distance, continuing
accident occurrences, or any ombination of these conditions.

(F) A diagnostic team recommends them.

(ii) In individual cases where a diagnostic team justifies that gates
re not appropriate, FHWA may find that the above requirements are not
applicable.

Bicyclist hit, killed by train in Versailles

Monday, May 26, 2003

By Gary Rotstein, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

A female bicyclist crossing railroad tracks in Versailles was struck and killed by a tr

2

lol don’t ever worry when speaking to a canadian about being nosey. Its in their nature to tell everything, which i refrain from doing here, becasue of this whole family orianted thing. you mentioned soemthing about… me not knowing what else is out there girls etc… clear up time… Lol… im not ALLOWED to know what else is out there… if i talk to a woman for more then 30 secondes a get a frown… but you nkow… thats also the way i like it… it keeps me in line… and i know that she cares for me.

tie the knot… we agreed to wait a few more years; it’ll end up being for the best.

i would say alot more, but Cabforward would be on my back instantly about me keeping my “G-rated” standerds. so Rememrb there is no such thing as being nosy to a Canadian…

have a great day,
kev, the-not-so-night-owl

3

The answer is simple she didnt look listen and live. but to further your statement that crossing is an old crossing in that the only way it will get gates is if the crossing is upgraded see if you are reading new laws there is such a term called grandfather. which means that the crossings that you mention are not affected by the new laws until the crossing are updated, then they haft to fall into the guidelines that are in effect at that time. this is why you have such a hard time with reality in that if the railroads had to upgrade everytime something was changed they would never get cought up. and the cost would be out of site. plus not all changes would help all crossings just a few and hurt others. In short you need to do more research and find out what laws was in effect at the time that crossing was put in. that crossing may be under 1950 laws, and the laws of 1999 or 2000 dont apply.

or another way to put it is if you are driving a 1970 camaro or firebird or dodge charger you do not fall into the same air polution laws that new cars do and that is called grandfathering

4

Canada - Same type of thing, up here it’s known as the “Grandfather claus”

The crossing that goes through town- had eblls and lights installed in 1961. under the laws of that day… that was all there were. Sure their junky, go off when they shouldn’t and coast more in maintnance then you can shake a stick at.

If i took a bulldoezer, and demolished the lights and the control box at that crossing-- demolished it into peices no bigger then sahrds… a law says

A) if a crossing at one point had lights, and were demolished sue to vandilisim or nay sort of violent act… they are to be replaced with THE SAME type tof system, however it must be up to code. In english - I buldozed the crossing with my make belive bulldozer, no one is allowed to say… oh well we didn’t really need them anywas, let’s put a wooden poll with an X on the top of it… can’t do that. it must be same type of signaling, that follows the code of that day.

sometime in the 1980’s All railroad crossings IN canada were froced to put Gates at crossings where
-There was more then one track.
that was the only reason. Some places have 60 trains go by in one day. on a single track at speeds up to 70 MPh and there aren’t any gates… jsut lights and bells… Right or not… c’est la vie.

Here missouri goes with his trash again about blah blah this… and all that junk… this guy si relentless.

Kev.

5

I called my grandfather and he agreed that haveing the head end of one train and the tail end of another at a crossing at the same time is really dangerous and was a problem when he was a young whipper snapper.

6

Yuor grand father’s alive?

i’m surpised he hasn’t become one of thso 8%, or been one of the ones on the bike or whatever else you’ve been yampering on about.

You sure he’s not part of one of your Statistics?

missouri, you hate younger people proving you wrong, don’t ya pops?

cheers
kev… what’s my age again?

7

In the immortal words of Bugs, “What a Maroon.”

8

be careful…you are dating yourself! :slight_smile:

9

Actually Kev GE bought one of the main railroad signal companys and Westinghouse the other lately. These junk systems used actually use a unshielded railroad track as the electrical conducter so a mis fireing spark plug in a car hits the right frequency and the gates see a train comeing. The electic is arcing at the right frequency in the area the gates start doing exercises. There are other systems much better with 1/2 the price tag. In Europe they use a 4 code system like the gate is carrying four beepers so there are a lot less false activations and gate failures. Railroads are too cheap to retrain the naintainers to switch systems besides the fact that they don’t want the yearly maintenance costs. The old cheaper to kill’em formula.

10

Ok prarierose let’s try this again

Reread my previous statement…

if you’ll notice the following -

  • I DONT have a degree in electrical engineering
    -I DON’T make 890 dollars an hour

i don’t even make close that

i probobly make less then you

my job will never pay off as much as yours will
I help people get from A to B, You help them in various other ways, and for that i congradualte you.

Who in this world has common sense? I do… i bet you do… Ed does… ken does… anyone on here probobly does…

now who in this world uses their common sense to realize that the gates DON’T always work?

ooooo believe it or not, not many poeple.

Who in this world can add?? oooo i can… i bet you can… Ed can… Do yuo do quick arithamtic in your head before going over a crossing, see i bet you didn’t know… is that the electric gates and lights are more likely to screw up the more tracks there are… so let’s see if theres 1+1 tracks that makes 2 tracks that means the gates are twice as likely to screw up as they would with one track.

or if theres a sign that sais 4 tracks do you still just stop? realizing those danm things are 4 times more likely to screw up then anywhere else…

No, when i’m driving my train believe it or not, i can’t stop at every crossing. I blast by most of them at more then 70 MPH.

Do yuo realize what Stop, look, listen, and live can do for you? Do you relize how many people’s lives that has saved

maybe you should quit bucking that system, give up your grudge… play by the rules that state " A train is bigger then your car" please don’t tell me you disagree with that statement. ok i’ll refine it… “a train is slightly bigger then your car…”

what’s the closest you’ve ever been to an oncomming freight train moving at 65 MPH? to realize, holy crap… if i was under there… theres no chance in heck that i’

11

yes kev
stop look listen and live.I wish more people would do that.come join us on the bbq train and have some of mammas chocolate cake(if matt and jen haven’t eaten it all!)
stay safe
Joe

12

Kev,
First of all I must appologize for misinterpreting your occupation. Second of all My name is Melissa. I am 26 years old. I will be honest with you I do have some what of a problem with some of the things that go on involving crashes. They are personal and I don’t care to post them on her for every one to read. You see I have been on a railsafety list serve and I will be honest with you there is alot of blame and anger there. I am tired of blame and anger. I don’t think it will solve any thing. The people are trying to make things better but maybe not going about it right I am not sure. I don’t hate any one. I TRY not to judge any one (some times that one is hard) I just simply want to talk to you guys and see how things could be made better. I realize you guys are attacked alot. I am sorry for that even though it is not with in my control. I realize you are employees with bosses and just do what you are told like any one else in their career. I realize you all have loved ones and support them. I don’t see you as monsters or bad people. I just want to see what can be done to improve some thing that is dangerous. It is dangerous for you guys and every one else. I have seen how many people have lost some one dear to them on this list serve and they are hurt and angry. Every one has a cause to believe in and I don’t fault them for doing what they think is right no more than I fault you or myself for doing what ever it is that we think is right. I do appriciate your honesty with me and your thoughtfullness. I do try to be safe at crossings. honestly I have seen some dangerous crossings. I have heard the stories of those people that have lost their loved ones, and why it happened. I feel for them. Some of them are probably that 10% you talked about. I realize accidents happen. But like you said a train is big. To be hit by a train is like a car running over a pop can. The chance of survival is very small. There are people dying all the time and it is sad not just from crossings but every thing in life. Some

13

One answer is education, but just talking it seems
just wont do, several years ago a small group of
railroaders visited high schools to talk crossing
safety to drivers ed classes, the students found
it boreing (it seems), no questions just ho-hum
when is this jerk gonna finish, Now, from an
engineers vantage point comming up on a crossing
we see automobiles putting their brakes on and
slowing down (you can see the brake lights at night real good) then all of a sudden they are on
the gas and shooting over the crossing, well,
every now and again one wont make it, if they are
alive the first thing they say is the horn wasnt
blowing, the headlights wasnt on, the crossing
signal wasnt working, the train was speeding, ect
also, sometimes its not just the motorist that
gets hurt or killed, ever see the front of a locomotive after it tangles with a log truck or
a cement truck, wheres the tears for the crew
members hurt and killed because some fool wanted
to beat the train and save 1 or 2 minutes, the only answer…look listen and live at RR crossings, expect a train anytime. jackflash

14

An individual, on a bicycle, provided they don’t have a cell-phone glued to their head, should be able to hear an oncoming train. I’m sure that this case will make its way through the courts, and someone will collect millions from various defendants. I think what what was lacking here was common sense. I don’t know all the details, but really, how can a person on a bicycle NOT be aware of a train bearing down upon them? I can understand these kids with the stereos that shake houses for 2 blocks, sure, THEY might not hear the train, but someone on a bicycle? Come on!
Just my 2 cents…
Todd C.

15

Hi Melissa,
I am Ed, and have been a engine foreman/switchman foreman for almost seven years.
No, I am not going to start off with the “I am so sorry for”, I am sure you have heard it far too many times by now. Both of my sisters are nurses, one is a ER nurse, the other a flight nurse/trauma room nurse and teacher, so I know you already have the first hand experience of some of the crazy things people do to each other and themselves.
You’r post said you lost someone at a grade crossing accident, and we respect you wish not to discuss that. From your response to Kev, I can tell you have fighred out that there are guys, and a lot of women, in the cab who suffer just as much mental tramua as the drivers physical trauma. The Stop, Look and Listen ,(now look, listen and live)slogan wasn’t though up by “The Railroads” as we are often refered to, but instead it was a product of the people who started operation lifesaver, railroaders. We came up with that because it was the only thing we could imagine that everyone could use and follow. Its was the one thing we realized reinforced the option that all automobile drivers have that we dont, the choice to stop.
As a nurse, you already know what having a high pressure job can do to a person, so imagine if, every day, several times during your routine job, you almost have a collision with a car?
Or a school bus or gasoline truck? So these guys are a little pre desposed to be defensive when accused of trying to hit people, or accused of not careing when it does happen.
One of the things the “hate” sites rarely mention is the the county, state or city DOT decides what amount of crossing protection a paticular crossing gets, not the railroad. Your DOT has to sue the railroad to gain access to the right of way in the first place, we dont want any crossing at all. Your reasonable assumption that we have bosses, so we do what they tell us to is some what correct, but we dont set the speed limits for a particular strech of tracks, nor does the rai

16

Alright missouri, i’m sick of you… so as i was influanced by the movie “8 mile” i’m gonna take freestyle rapping out on you.

Missouri, whatever your real name is… bob john …jack…,

keep your stuff to yourself, because it’s all crap,

posting your trash, why do you even dare?

isn’t it obvious that NO ONE EVEN CARES?

Wheres the Adult thats supposed to be Monitoring you?

Or are they meerley part of your statistics too?

Yuo need help buddy, and your way out of line…

Can’t you see… no one wants to hear you whine!

This not done… this isn’t clear… this is all you talk…

Think your so good, your far from ****-of-the-walk.

Until you know what it’s like to Conduct a train,

maybe from these forums you should promptly refrain

All the trash you been putting up here…

hear that?.. mommy’s calling you for supper, dear.

that’s right, loser, it’s time for you to go…

Got a job, get a life… you frekin hobo

thats, it i’m otta hear i could insult you all night

but forget it… i got better stuff to do. i gotta take flight.

/Rick

17

Its so easy to make that sick statement when its not your kid or Mom isnt’t it? I suppose she was TRYING to kill herself?

18

yes its real easy as i tought my kids to look listen and live they never even had a close call. and guess what my parents tought me to look listen and live. and guess what im still here. and if others would look listen and live then you would not have a thing to complain about, and other people would quit telling you we dont care.

19

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/TA/ProgMgt/Grants/Sight_Eng.pdf Before you get your kids or somebody elses killed there dip you need to let them know that where they are looking is NOT far enough 90% of the time and train whistles are only blown at 40% of the crossings.

20

Hence the LOOK part of that…you got it?..
it’s not just

– LISTEN and live
nor

– LOOK and live

it’s LOOK, LISTEN and LIVE…
sounds like you need to do a lot more lookin, bro.

Rick… thats great… wow… thats really funny.

kev says: L-O-O-K, listen and live