Another in the seemingly endless battles between the railroad [ASR], and the ‘Trail’ folks. It seems that this struggle has gone on for years(?). Like the ‘death by a thousand cuts’. It futher seems that the main battle is which side will run out of money first. Once again, a struggle that only the lawyers will ‘win’(?).
Referenced in the current TRAINSNewswire piece is a PDF from a piece by Karl Zimmermann from (in July issue) dated May27, 2016; which details the story whose title gives an indication that it is not a friendly situation : ‘Trails vs.Rails:A potential precedent-setting case in New York state turns an ally into an enemy’
The next itertion of this story in the November issue of the TRAINS Newswire is:
"Rail versus trail battle continues in upstate New York"
By Dan Kittay | November 7, 2018
FTA:"…At issue are 34 miles of rail that run from Tupper Lake to Lake Placid, N.Y. Portions of the tracks need work and are out-of-service. When New York State, which owns the land the railroad runs on, proposed in 2016 to remove the rails and convert the land to a rail trail, the railroad sued. oad corridor Judge Robert Main Jr. ruled in 2017 against the state, in large part on the previous designation of the land as part of
This issue has little to do with real estate, as in development - which is heavily regulated in the Park, and very much to do with the desire of a few who want to see the rails up and everyone out of “their” woods.
The “trail advocates” shot down a rail plus trail proposal cold. It would have left the rails in place and developed a parallel trail where possible, with some alternate trail routings where having the two alongside each other would not be physically possible. This very much colors their supposed commitment to building the trail.
The end run to the Adirondack Park Agency was an attempt to circumvent the ruling of a judge who said that the proposal to pull up the tracks from Tupper Lake to Lake Placid was seriously flawed. The APA proposal would have added “trail” to the definition of a travel corridor (currently defined as rail or road). Public comments came in at some 60% favoring leaving it as is - ie, favoring rail.
One of the groups pushing to have the rails lifted is ostensibly the snowmobile community. I understand their concern - there must be a good eight inches of packed snow on the railbed before they can ride without interference from the rails.
On the other hand, there are areas through which the corridor passes which ban any mechanical conveyance, including snowmobiles. It is a safe bet that the “forever wild” faction, which has not spoken up yet, would be in the forefront of banning sleds from those portions of the corridor should the rails be lifted. Many in th
Since I’m not obsessive about checking this forum for Adirondack Rail/Trail comments, it appears I’m 18 days late in this comment. Nevertheless, I will say to Larry that we trail advocates have been very involved in the ongoing planning with the DEC for the eventual tail trail. And with five staunch snowmobile advocates (which we gladly welcome) on the Adirondack Recreational Trail Advocates (ARTA) board of directors, ARTA is totally committed to insuring that snowmobiling remains a permitted use for the length of the Corridor. Hence our pressure on the Adirondack Park Agency to finally amend the State Land Management Plan (SLMP) to further define the “Travel Corridor” classification to make it clear that it remained a travel corridor even without the tracks. This SLMP amendment was prescribed in the 1996 Unit Management Plan (UMP) for the Corridor in the event that recreational use (Option 4) became the final choice. This SLMP amendment still preserves this corridor’s right-of-way should rail service at some distant point ever again be desired.
The ARTA board members who are strong snowmobile advocate are:
Jim McCulley, President of the Lake Placid Snowmobile Club, but should need no further introduction.
Jim Rolf, NYS Snowmobile Association Trails Coordinator.
John Brockway, owner of Charlie’s Inn at Lake Clear Junction whose winter business would benefit greatly from snowmobilers who could ride in with minimal snow from three directions rather than just down from Malone where the tracks are long gone.
Hope Fenette, Tupper Lake resident who skis and snowmobiles and is well-aware of the economic benefits to Tupper Lake when there is enough snow for snowmobilers to get there.
Chris Kenniston, also a Tpper Lake resident who also snowmobiles as well as skis and knows that both uses must be accommodated.
I’m sure the five of you have been busy, out there on the right of way dealing with the damage from the two years the railroad hasn’t had to maintain the line. Or is that the railroad’s job…
And if the tracks do get lifted, you’ll be out there every year dealing with washouts, fallen trees, etc…
I can tell you where that money went. It went to Puerto Rico supposedly to help them recover from the hurricane last year. But, I would be willing to bet that it is now back in Albany but you’re not going to find any accounting for it anywhere on the state’s books.
On Dec. 6th the following was an article in TRAINS NEWSWire: “‘Disgruntled’ former employee suspected of hacking tourist railroad surveys”
In this day and time it seems the politics of anguish are everywhere. The ASR is up to their collective eyeballs in their fight for existance with groups that seem bent on their own agendas.
FTA:“…The railroad believes that “a disgruntled former employee who had access to the site by virtue of passwords” changed wording on a survey question to give it a negative meaning, says Bill Branson, board president of the Adirondack Railway Preservation Society, which operates the railroad. The passwords have been changed, Branson adds…” I’d guess that is score one, for the IT folks who are incessently, clamoring for users to change their pass words. [sigh]
ASR’s problem was in the following clip from the Newswire piece:FTA: "…The railroad routinely sends a survey to people who ride its popular Polar Express
It’s been brought up. Of little import if your only goal is to get the rails out of the woods. These folks don’t care if those with limited mobility can get to see the Adirondacks by any means. They want everyone out of their woods.
Not yet heard from in this “battle” are the environmental preservationists who will see to it that those portions of the corridor which pass through areas of the park that limit motorized (or even simple mechanical, like a mountain bike) access follow those rules as well, if the rails are lifted. Which means no snowmobiles…
The snowmobile crowd is now complaining about the washouts (beavers!) along the corridor, but you don’t see them offering to help fix those areas. I guess it’s the hated railroad’s responsibility…
Just how well has anybody looked at the original purchase of the line from NYC and how the legislature tagged funds, enabled a bill to purchase the thing? ie- bought the corridor for what specific purposes? USRA Line Codes really don’t apply here, so I’m lead to believe that this thing was separated from PC by the state with some preconditions that did not solely involve Olympics planning by NY-DOT and the creation of what became CR (and more importantly what didn’t).
That was the crux of Judge Main’s decision - there were at least three locations where the corridor would revert to owners other than the state. How many more are there? (Rhetorical question.)
One factor is that much of the land the corridor runs through, while it may have been held privately at the time, now belongs to the state via numerous land purchases over time, so if those portions of the corridor revert to the property owner, it’ll be the state anyhow.
And, as Ive said, these “trail advocates” really don’t care - they just want everyone out of the woods. They can’t accomplish that as long as the tracks are in place.
Yes, the last time I was on a paved trail was in October in Zion Nat’l Park. There was an elderly gentleman in a wheelchair with family at least a mile back on the trail. He made it thru spots with mud and gravel across the trail. The family seemed obviously proud of his efforts. I have ridden many tourist trains, including the Adirondack scenic, and while seeing a person or two in wheelchairs would be unremarkable, I don’t recall seeing any trips with noticable numbers of handicapped persons. Disabled people can get “reasonable accomidation” including mobile options on non-motorized trails. As far as elderly, yes I remember seeing a few elderly people on the Mt. Marcy trail (not paved, unless you count boulders) several years back. I have seen senior citizens hiking up 14,000’ mountains in Colorado.
There’s more to “mobility limited” than wheel chairs - we have a lot of folks who don’t need the lift to get on the train, but definitely would be out of their element on a trail.
“Plans” for the trail generally don’t go beyond “stone dust” as a paving medium - ie, fine gravel.
Remember, too, that portions of the corridor have zero cell coverage. Break a leg or get attacked by a bear and help will be a long, long time coming.
People tend to be pretty messy, too. Read up on the Appalachin Trail and the issues they are encountering. The great part about the train is that aside from a little exhaust, virtually nothing is left behind, unless someone tosses trash out a window.
The TRAINSNewswire of Dec. 12 carries an article referencing this on going struggle over the ASR and its continued existance as an operational entity over the full ROW, and the contested 34 miles.
Apparently, the resolution being sought is a change of definition for the ROW.
[in part] FTA:"…New York state had proposed in 2016 to remove the tracks to create a rail trail. The Adirondack Scenic Railroad, which operates the entire Remsen-Lake Placid line on a permit from the state, sued the state. Judge Robert Main Jr. ruled in 2017 against the state, in part because of the rail corridor definition contained in the Adirondack Park State Land Master Plan,