I know that there is a disdain for rants on these forums and I want to state upfront that my post is not a rant but an open question to all of us MR’s. And as a result, I won’t make mention of the supplier in question.
I received an email advertisement from one of the suppliers who advertises in MR and on this website constantly. I have never done business with them before so I can not attest to their operation but my inquiry to them regarding the email raises some suspicions. The email was to promote a current sale that they are offering until the middle of next week.
The ad had some items that had interested me and the price seemed reasonable so I decided I would go ahead and order some things. When I selected the items they all said “out of stock”. I found that a bit strange since I tried to place an order about 2 hours after the email was sent to my inbox. I placed a call to the supplier to see if they were indeed out of stock or if there was a problem with the website. They stated that their website was tied to their inventory control and if the website stated it was out of stock then, they were out of stock. I questioned how they could sell out of an item in two hours since posting an ad and was told that model trains are hot items and they sell very well. They further stated to check back to the website because they may get additional shipments from their vendor and this would be reflected on the website.
I’m sorry but I don’t buy that. I checked every other item in other roadnames that they offered in their advertisement and they were all out of stock except for 3 cars. I’m having a hard time believing that they would sell out of almost every car, in every available roadname in that amount of time, especially some of the less popular roadnames and undecorated units. I question whether or not these items even existed in inventory when the ad was placed.
My first question would be, why would they even bother listing all of these items in their ad if they’ re not
If they misrepresented their ability to fill more than maybe four such orders, say only eight, it would still be defensible if the items had been languishing on their shelves, or on their supplier’s shelves, and just gathering dust. Theoretically, I could advertise that I have BLI Hudsons (yes, plural), for sale for a song and $120, QSI system thrown in, and have only the one dusty model that just can’t get that buyer to spring for it. As long as I could make the sale, I have fulfilled the advertising. Joe Second Caller is simply out of luck. How was I to know that his neighbour Jim First Caller would get the sale and not he?
Personally, I would not use such a tactic. I feel it is misleading and untruthful. But if I had only two Hudsons, it would not be misleading. So I ask you, were you Joe Third Caller or even further down the stack? Who is to know?
Another thought. People don’t receive the email at the same time. Sometimes my emails make it in just a few minutes, other times the get lost in nether land for several hours. Not to say this happened to you, but is possible. I received an email from a major rr vender today, that listed some items as limited amount in stock. Tells me they might only have a few they are trying to get rid of. Will probably sell out in no time.
Caveat Emptor- buyer beware. We must always guard ourselves when dealing with marketing and glitzy ads in that we understand exactly what the ad is saying, not seeing in our mind what we hope it says. I have not seen the ad to which you reference, but I’m sure it says somewhere to the effect that “some road names not available” or “limited quantities” or “no choice of road name” or something similar. I’ve had a surprising amount of luck on ads like this where the item was “out of stock” in getting a rain check for the item- the supplier would email me when it was available and I was locked in to the sale price on the item regardless of the current stocking price. Perhaps you could try getting a rain check yourself.
The items were probably available before the sales flyer was sent out. People who check the site regularly may have bought before the email was sent. Also, the flyer may have been made based on promises from the manufacturer that weren’t fulfilled or were late.
Personally, as long as there is an accurate inventory online, I’m happy.
For those very few items I really want, I buy from the manufacturer/importer at list or pre-production discount.
Yes for accurate inventory for online ordering. This one of several reason I like to shop at MB Klein’s web site. If the listing says they have an item in stock when I add it to my cart, I know I will get it. Walther’s - maybe. I placed one direct order, all items listed as in stock and available, and a few hours later got an email that one was backordered. GRRR.
Here are a few problems with computerized inventory systems in general that really do not have any bearing on the intentions of the business or advertiser:
1} Emails, like regular magazine or USPS Sales Flyers, arrive to different people at different times. SOme people could have gotten the email 2 days before you did and immediately ordered before you even got the email sale ad.
2} You may place an “in stock” item in your cart and continue shopping. WHile you continue shopping another shopper, who has bought the same item is checking out his cart while you shop. The one “in stock” you saw goes to him as his order was PLACED first…this can happen even with “5 in stock” if 5 others check out before you do. Just like beating you to the items on a shelf in the store before you get to them on a sale day.
3} when there are- how many people in the USA alone?- millions of people who all have access to the same website at the same time and can order the same “hot item” or even not hot item…chances can be like winning the lottery of getting it.
4} email sales ads and USPS mailing flyers are often put together as much as a month before they go out. THey may have had some inventory to back up the ad, but it could have sold out in the mean time before the ad was delivered by email, USPS or pony express.
5} Often times an ad WILL purposely contain items that are low sellers or off-beat at a price many will decide that they will pay just so the business can “clean house” and clear out inventory that is taking up space and not selling well. The “there’s a sucker born every minute” can apply here. They may buy anything-even an offbeat road name. An undecorated or painted but unnamed loco may sell out faster than a road name for those who want to paint in their own scheme or decal it for their own road.
6} the more popular an item is…say a CSX or BNSF or UP loco, many in stock can zero out fast…see #3 again.
I do not know how much inventory the advertiser had on hand. But with the advent of technology I could imagine e-mails being sent at 8 AM eastern time to thousands of customers. The entire mailing list could take quite some time to complete. An example, I send an SMTP e-mail blast to 500 of my patrons. On my system I send one message to one person, with a personal salutation. That takes time, about an hour.
If a vendor has 100 of a product and sends 10000 messages the first sent will have an advantage over the last sent. Never mind those who work and other variables.
So I think it is possible to be out of stock before the last e-mail sent has arrived at its destination.
It is well to remember that retail (and e-tail) outlets are NOT here to save you money. They’re out to make money themselves. Sales are constructed as a means to that end. Sometimes, they’re intended to move dead stock. Sometimes, to entice you into the store to buy non-sale items as well.
The laws are pretty clear on this stuff. The advertiser must have the item in stock when the sale begins, or when the flier is printed. But not how many. Crandall is right – the sale may be designed to unload those ten one-off items that have been gathering dust for years.
And another point – some spam filters screen out messages base on how many addressees are on it, so a lot of e-mails go out in batches rather than all together.
So long as you keep in mind that a sale is a “win-win” situation for you and the retailer, not an altruistic “good deal” for you, and it will help to avoid frustration.
The good online stores will take the item out of inventory when you put it in your cart, not when you check out - that way unless you leave the site without checking out, or put the item back, you get it - just like in the real store. That way there are no unpleasant surprises when you check out. I suspect Walthers does as you mentioned, if there are 5 left in stock, the first 5 people to check out get the item, even if person #6 actually put it in their cart first.
I ran into a similar situation a couple of years ago, got the Email at 8:00AM, immediately called the manufacturer/importer only to be told they were already “sold out”. Naturally I was a bit “miffed” as it was a popular locomotive, one that I hadn’t considered until I received the email, and was about 75% off of list.
Some time later I was informed that they indeed had about 50 of those locos in stock but that some investor and/or dealer had snatched them all. I later saw them being offered on EBAY for considerably more than they sold for from the manufacturer. While it still bothered me I later bought a pair of these locos in new condition from a fellow online who wanted the same price as I had originally seen them advertised. Sometimes things do work out, but I still consider myself lucky to have found them and no longer blame the manufacturer for not having them in stock as advertised.
Guys thanks for all the replies. I agree with what all of you have said. You all raise some very valid points. I should probably give some additional details that may help you all to understand my suspicions. I have been told by numerous hobby shop owners and model railroad equipment manufacturers that most hobbyist these days perfer RTR equipment versus kits. The items I was looking at happened to be railcar kits. There were 39 different roadnames listed in the ad but upon searching the various listed roadnames there were only two roadnames with kits available. One roadname had two kits in stock, the other had one for a total of 3 available kits out of 39 roadnames.
The kits in question are current production items and are not limited runs. They are actually available at other retailers so I’m not upset about missing out as I can get them elsewhere. The retailer is one of the largest in our hobby, so I don’t think it is a case of a small mom and pop shop trying to clean out the shelves of a kit or two. Even if they only had one kit of each roadname that would be about 40 kits if you include the undecorated one. Based on the size of this retailer I would think that they would have had more than one of each available. Even with the possibilty of me receiving the email much later than others, I still am having trouble thinking that there were enough other individuals who would be interested in these particular kits for starters and two, that there was someone interested in everyone of these roadnames including the more obscure ones.
I guess one possibility is that someone bought the whole lot in hopes of reselling them but again I think that would be a bit of a stretch. There may very well be nothing out of order here, I guess I’m just a little skeptical of the whole thing and was interested in the rest of yours feedback.
SP, I received the same e-mail and have the same suspicions. Someone buying that whole lot of Branchline kits within minutes? Even at that price, when you include shipping it’s not going to buy you a business. Also, IF this is an advertising concept this company’s website itself seems based it too: it shows lots and lots of stuff for nice prices, but lots of it: out of stock. You only find out when you’ve clicked through to ‘more information’. Maybe the idea is that after all that fruitless clicking, the customer is so happy to finally stumble upon something that IS in stock that he takes it, even though it wasn’t what he first came for.
Put differently: all excited about the cheap Branchline kits I decided to drop an x-amount of money in new purchases, only to find out they’re out of stock. Then what to do with the money? In my mind I had already set it aside for this one little online shopping spree, so I’m seduced to try to find another destination for it.
To be fair, the couple of times that I did buy from them have been totally satisfactory. I just don’t bother to browse their site or e-mails anymore. Or - try to.
To me, this seems like a poor business strategy. After an experience like that, I might never shop with that company again. So, for the sake of a few quick sales, are they really willing to lose potential customers, perhaps forever?
I don’t have a degree in marketing, but this tactic strikes me as counter-productive in the long run.
I agree 100% with Randy, the great place in Maryland has an awesome system as it lets you immediately see when something goes out of stock or how many they have left. I have had stuff go out of stock in my cart before I could get it ordered.
On the other hand my second favorite site the big MR advertiser in New York has a system that is almost frustrating to understand if the item was in stock when you ordered it or even if it has shipped. They are trying to get better at personal notification but the emails seem to depend on the diligence of the individual salesperson. They also have adopted an notification system in your account but its not much help when it says processing until it arrives at your door the same day it says delivery.
I don’t think the whole practice is deceptive at all. They had some number of items languishing on the shelves Not selling by ordinary means. What to do? Put them on a clearance special. But how will people know about it? You have t advertise. Now would you prefer the advertise to only a select few people who’ve done business there rather than give everyone a chance? Filtered by what? Who spent the most? Who bought similar items before? New customer? In some cases a practice like that might even be illegal. They pretty much HAVE to advertise to everyone. In the case of an out of production item, it’s not like they can order an extra 200 units before the sale.
Admittedly, I haven’t worked in retail in 25 years, but back then, there was no point in advertising a sale on items you hadn’t received yet, unless you were trying to get people in the door (no Internet in those days). The other possibility is that you got a great deal on them yourself, and after you ordered, you became nervous that you had over-ordered, and so ran the sale to preemptively avoid the dead stock.
Someone mentioned the “clear the shelves” as a bad business strategy. It is, if you only do it for a few items with limited quantities, and you do it repeatedly, yes, it may backfire. We used to do it once a year, and combine it with other sale items so that it was a huge sale.
I think it quite possible that there is an assumption of “immediate notification” associated with e-mail that may not be true, and the advertiser would be within his legal obligations. In a case where a retailer has a brick and mortar location, he might put up a sign advertising the sale and unload a lot of the merchandise during the day, and, especially in a Mom-and-Pop operation, might not get around to sending out the e-mail until later. Again, all perfectly legal.
As others have pointed out, there are entrepreneurs floating around who try to buy things at extremely low prices for later resale. Many of these people have “bots” – scripts that surf the internet looking for prices that meat certain criteria, and these people might buy up an entire sale lot – automatically – before you even get your e-mail.
That said, if you still suspect illegal advertising, contact the Better Business Bureau or the state AG for the state where the business operates (it has to have some presence somewhere). These groups will conduct and impartial investigation into the matter, without the “Internet Slander” that accompanies these things (although we’ve done a good job of not implicating specific companies here). The downside is you may never know the outcome, but