Age-Old Question: Continuous Running vs. Pure Switching on a Small Layout

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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First of all, I had too much Iced Tea with dinner, so I’m wired on Caffeine (causing a 2am message posting).

I’m struggling like crazy trying to fit an HO layout in an 8ft x 10ft space in my garage. This space also needs to occupy my workbench, tools, etc.

As a kid, I had a few 4 x 8 layouts. I had zero to little switching possibilities on those layouts. I do remember quickly getting bored of round-n-round, and the layouts never got very far at all. However, building a layout without a continuous running capability seems almost sacreligious, doesn’t it?

But if I go pure switching, I could create a really nice, small, say 2ft x 10ft switching layout, that will have all I need for switching - runaround track, lots and lots of turnouts, plenty of nice long spurs (i.e. 4ft long or so), etc.

I feel though, that I may want continuous running at some point.

However, I’ll totally be killing my working space in the garage if I go with continuous running.

With a small shelf layout, that space could include other important things, like a place for airbrushing, etc.

So the question is, do any of you have layouts without continuous running, but wish you did have it?

I could easily tack some flex track onto a 4 x 4 board for burning in locomotives, etc., then lean it up against the wall when I’m done.

I also do many of my hobbies in spurts. So, I may be into model trains for a month, then abandon it for 2 months, etc. A simple shelf layout will be easy to cover up and forget about for a couple months.

I could seriously set up the 4x4 loop on the workbench next to my shelf layout if I’m dying for that sound of the train running and running while I’m doing some switching on my shelf layout.

Funny thing is as a kid, I did not realize how hard it was to plan a layout in a small space. I always figured once I had a garage of my own, it would be a piece of cake. Wrong! I also thought

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This is a tough question to answer, I’m kinda in the same boat. In about 8 feet I’ll have to decide weather I want to have a continuous loop into a double ended staging yard or have a double deck layout with a much longer main line but with 2 seperate staging areas.[banghead]
I wish I could just decide one or the other but I just don’t know.

bill

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Build a shelf layout totally without the ability for continuous running and see how quickly THAT becomes boring.

CNJ831

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I’m building a 4X6 layout from a plan I got from an Atlas trach plan book, it’s called The Morgan Vally RR. You can find it online at the atlas website. It has both continuous running and switching. Plus there is a track running off the edge for later expantion.

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Why not have wrap the layout around your space and use 2 return loops?

PS, on the caffeine, my father has resolved not to drink caffeine (that includes coffee, cake, and our most frequent, tea) after 2PM. Sleeps much better now. Hope posting the question took your mind off of it and let you go to sleep!

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CARRfan,

This is what I came up with, I havn`t built it yet, so its subject to change. Will be 4’ x 12’ Giving me some switching and continuous running, or both at the same time. I know its not real exciting…one big oval, but will fill my needs, I think…[:)]

Gregg

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Gregg: do you have room to walk around all sides? Consider openining the middle and making an 8x12 out of that like I did, more room to run in and yet it takes the same sloor space when you consider leaving room between the layout and the walls to walk around the outside.

As to the original question - BOTH! Take a look at my ‘big’ plan for my space, the stagiig will be underneath the long wall section and it’s just as easy to connect the ends of the staging as leave them stub-ended, thus there is continuous running even though for operations it will be a point to point. Having a means to circulate trains is usefu for showing off to the less railroady visitors who could care less that you’re following waybills and delivering specific cars to specific industries, and it’s great for test running and also makes a great background while working at the bench building things.

–Randy

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If you decide to master the track planning software, whatever it takes, you can “build” and tear apart more layouts in two hours than twenty modelers can for real their whole lives. According to some of the ads in old MR’s, some of the programs even let you run trains on them, though I haven’t actually done this or seen it done firsthand.

In my opinion, building a layout without exploring the options via software in advance is like buying a pig in a poke.

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It seems to me the key question is whether you have space for continuous running, whether it be a simple oval or a loop-to-loop plan. With a 22" radius, you’ll need 4’ of width to turn the trains. If you have the space, it is not hard to develop a track plan that combines continuous running with a switching layout. You can take a simple oval, add a wing to one side and develop an out-and-back plan where a train leaves the yard, makes as many loops as you want and then returns to the yard. If you have space for two yards, you can have the train leave one yard, make as many loops as you want then terminate in the second yard. Adding industries to the wings or inside the loop creates additional switching opportunities. The problem I see with a pure switching layout is you never get to run a train. You just get to shuttle cars back and forth from one point to another. That might appeal to some but as a previous poster suggested, that can get old in a hurry too.

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Why not build the layout higher around 48 to 50 inches with sit down workspace beneath? Say a Sceniced L shape along 2 walls 2ft deep for the switching part with a narrow 6 inch wide shelf around the rest of the room to give a continuous run. Lift out section of the 6inch shelf for the doorway unless you want to crawl in.
You could include fold up industrial spurs that attach for operating sessions and project into the centre of the room. Make them 3ft x 1ft with one leg for the projecting end and store them under the layout when not in use.
Best of both.

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Keep the tips coming guys.

Jeffers, yes, I’ve been using CAD to try out a bunch of different options. Not train software, but mechanical design software that I use on a daily basis - making it easy to model up designs quickly.

It’s amazing how a DogBone doesn’t really fit into an 8 x 10ft space with 22" radius curves. It just doesn’t fit!

Keep the ideas coming guys.

Now excuse me while I ponder N scale once again. Arrrgggghhhh!

By the way, some of the non-continuous running layouts that have inspired me include David Barrows South Plains District from 1996, Bob Smaus’ two small switching layouts, Tony Koester’s recent G scale Claremont & Concord, Tim Warris’ (aka the Fasttracks guy) Port Kelsey, and Howard Scodras layout from Feb 2005 MR - the article was called “Big City Railroading in a Small Apartment Room”.

Now, bare with me here - because these are all, in my opinion, totally beautiful layouts - I’d rank them all as, “more visually appealing than most”. I don’t know if this is totally because of the extremely linear (i.e. no return loops at all) designs, or if it’s because these layout creators have layouts that are so small that their focus has been on making the layouts look nice. In any case, rationally or irrationally, I’m totally drawn to that style of railroading.

Another case in point is Bill Denton’s N Scale Kingsbury Branch - this has to be one of the finest layouts I’ve seen in our favorite magazine. Here’s a link to it:

http://members.aol.com/wdenton101/index.htm?f=fs

Wow, that is a nice layout.

Again, no continuous running - but it’s obvious that this guy’s focus was on making a beautiful layout (gotta love that handlaid N scale Code 40 track).

I’m sort of wondering if due to the fact that I don’t want a layout to overtake my garage, maybe, by definition, I should limit myself to a shelf switching layout. In a 2 x 10ft space, I could do something pr

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Randy
Short answer is no, but I plan on being able to nove it out from wall if need be. Ill have to anyway to build it or work on it. I tried to come up with a plan so I could reach most of where the swithing activity would take place. I know its gonna look alot different in real, than a plan does, may not be as easy to reach as im thinking. I tried all kinds of ideas including one with opening in the center, but it just takes up to much of the room.
Will have to suffice till the Train room fairy brings me a large dedicated room for such things. One good thing about it is, Ill be the only one using it. So wont have to worry about other operators with no room. By the way, I used the Atlas RTS software, must have done a hundred by now, and this is what im settling on for now.
Thanks for input, Gregg

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Carr,

Have you looked through Kalmbachs 101 Track Plans lately?

This is where I got my plans for my 9X12 layout.

Gordon

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All I have is my 10 X 12 bedroom in my parent’s house. In our basement or in our garage, it would either get destroyed or there is no real room for trains.

I really wanted to have continuous running, and still do. But it ain’t going to happen, and I now accept that. I just could not squeeze it in.

So, I built a 2’ X 12’ switching layout. Its neat, it fits, and it doesn’t overwhelm me. It is one of many hobbies I have.

There are plenty of plans for such type layouts … even more narrow…that squeeze in lots of track. But I made my own layout, because I wanted to do a little superdetailing of an industrial scene. So, I have my own little private industrial railroad switching cars around a large industrail area, with an interchange to the outside world.

Since I have no continuous running, no mountains, no deserts, no long coal trains, etc etc, I dcecided to make it completely hands off … DCC control of the turnouts and magnetic uncoupling. I have spent much time perfecting those things in my little layout, and the industrail superdetailing (and a little scratchbuilding/kitbashing) has been fun.

I built and tested the layout using my sole engine, an old Kato NW2 Conrail unit. And now I’m ready to buy 2 Proto Heritage 0-8-0’s and a BLI switcher to actually operate the layout. (I’ll put a loop on our diningroom table to break the engines in)

So, while I still do wish I could watch some long trains passing me by, I have a nice, complete, very usable layout to play with. And, any work I do on it is improving the superdetailing of my heavy, dirty industrial scene, I can still operate it at all times.

Greg

BTW, after I buy these engines, that will be alot of money I have in this thing in a relatively short period of time; but I completely blew out my knee this past fall, requiring 3 big surgeries, and i hate TV, so my folks helped me out with this stuff.

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Is N scale out of the question ??? I have the same dilema. Sooo- I’m going to build an N scale layout at home here in a small spare bedroom and use my HO rolling stock on my club’s layout. Ken

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I building this layout on a 4X8

Happy MRRing

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im not sure i understand the question ,why does a layout have to be one or the other . im an actual railroader for bnsf .i planned my layout like an actual yard .in the yard any piece of track is useable continous /orswitching .my layout has three ovals ,on the main outside oval i have two stub tracks and one lead coming off with three branches .my main also has two crossovers going to main 2 ,main2 has one siding and crossover going to m3 ,m3 has one siding ,and a lead going to 3 branches one of which is the same branch from main 1 .so i can do plenty of switching and setting out of trains ,or line the swithes in away that allows three trains to run at once continously .its really neat because at one point if all three trains are in the right possition they pass eachother on switches that make them appear to be running into eachother ,but at last second each one diverges to there respective route .but then again my layout is 4’x12’ and the only track using 22 in radius curves is the inside main three ,the rest (m1,m2)
were made out of flex track ,they turn just as much as the other ,but i put a straight section in widening them out ,and have run trains at full speed around them with no problem .the best part is most of the middle is wide open for scenery ,or industrial stuff ,im not sure yet .so i dont know if this was any help or not .

p.s. as for the room thing ,and not using it all the time ,why not nail a couple of 2x 4s to the wall ,for spacing then attach door hinges to them and to your layout ,so your layout rest on them ,then attach 2 pulleys to the wall ,or ceiling above them then attach an eye loop to your outside corners ,and use a cable so your set up could easily fold up to wall .the 2x4s would give you four inches clearance ,as time goes on and you add buildings ,you may need more clearance .then could use 4x8s . i hope this has been some sort of help ,and not just me rambling on .

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Why not think outside the box? If two heads are better than one, then two levels are better than one. I always plan for hidden multitrack reverse loop staging areas FIRST, under the table with up and down ramps connecting to the main line. By doing that, I can call up any train I want, any time I want, and get rid of it when I want. Try it, you’ll like it. It is basically a single or double “dogbone” with the return loops out of the way. That helps provide the space you will need for sidings to switch. Without that ability you are just “playing with toy trains” running them round and round. Gets boring FAST!

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Is there a problem with making a shelf layout that goes all the way around the room? Obviously this will require some sort of lift-up or drop-down system for the door, but done right you can have quite a bit of layout on 32-34 square feet of plywood.

Actually it is pretty much what I am doing. My garage is 8x18 feet, and I am building a layout around the perimeter of the room. Since I also use the garage for workshop, storage and music studio, I couldn’t invade too much of the room–but I could afford to build a shelf all the way around the room. The layout is set at 48" off the ground, with a valence/lighting/upper shelf at 66" high. This is a bit short for most–but my garage roof is only a bit over 6’6 high and I wanted enough room to store things on top of the valence shelf, as well as under it.

Right now, my layout covers 12 feet of one wall with a small yard (built first) and industrial district (built second.) I also have a small extension still in the benchwork stage, and another section which I built first but am going to radically redesign.

I, too, tend to work on the layout in spurts. An advantage to a modular/sectional approach is that you can have something ready to roll in a short time, and then add to it later. I’ll set down the tools entirely during most of the year, and have my big model railroading jag in winter/spring. In between, I do occasional operating sessions when I’m in the garage.

Effectively, it’s like a “hole in the center” layout with a much bigger hole…just take your basic 4x8 sheet of plywood and have it ripped into four 1x8 foot boards. Build frames for the underside out of 1x2 lumber and secure them with wood screws–that’s about all the benchwork you’ll need if you’re going foam, a bit more if you go cookie-cutter.

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Here are some current photos of my layout, to give you an idea of what I am talking about…

A shot of the industrial/switching area: cannery, almond packing, dairy and coffee packing.

A shot of the yard: four track single ladder, capacity about 24 cars.

New module, under construction: two spurs serving a very large cannery.

Engine service/storage area, with old Birney bodies up on blocks for storage/sale. Visible in shot are a CCT 70 tonner, two SN 44 tonners, a WP S1 and an SN locomotive that didn’t exist.

Switching the cannery on C Street.

Highball! Eight cars, caboose, double-headed.