You are thinking of “Madison” Hardware and the Carmen you are thinking of is Carmen “Webster”.
Mark
WGAS
Well, since this thread is now alive again, I occasinally visited AHC in the 1980s, and I do NOT remember their store being ‘crammed’ with all that much - this was the second floor ‘showroom’ (maybe 10’x20’), w/ glass display counters around 3/4 of the - I remember Rocket & R/C to your right as you entered. Anyway, most of the stock I think was on the first floor (closed to the public), and they would send it up via a small elevator. I can’t remember when their two-three page ads disappeared from Model Railroader, but at the time this thread was started (looks like 2003), they had moved to a small store-front only a few blocks south of Penn Station, and it was not impressive at all.
Was the ‘crammed’ store stuffed from floor to ceiling in the 1980s perhaps that guy (Allen?) w/ the cat on the 4th floor somewhere in the 40s (45th St? -Red Caboose, I think) - they ended up moving across the street to the store in the basement, which was a bit of a bummer since that store was somewhat better, and the Red Caboose was kind of…weird.
Of course, since this thread was started, IHC itself has now come and gone, which is a bummer to me as I wanted to get several of those IHC Townhouse kits at the IHC price (~$15 each), as opposed to the same kit under Model Power for $40 each.
I too have some fond memories of AHM trains from the early 1960’s. You should realize that it was a different era then. When it was first introduced in 1961 their Indiana Harbor Belt 0-8-0 was considered “state of the art”, with detail which far surpassed anything that could be found on steam engines from Mantua or Penn Line. I still have two of them today, and they run fine.
As for diesels, even with only one truck powered, the Fairbanks-Morse C-liners and BL-2s ran far smoother than the Athearn rubber band driven F-units or the Varney “gear grinders”, and while some of the proportions were slightly off, they looked great compared to such monstrosities as the Athearn GP-30 anf the “droopy-eyed” Varney F-3.
I had several friends in high school who had Athearn Pacifics that would barely even move down the track, let alone pull a train, and the Athearn GP30 with the original motor would get hot enough to roast a turkey on while barely moving 7 or 8 cars!
True, the rolling stock had large flanges, but where else could you find a plastic model of a New York Central Flexi-Flo hopper for a buck? Their 3-bay Pullman Standard covered hoppers released in the early 1960’s were quite well detailed, and have only been eclipsed recently by the new Athearn versions with the metal roofwalks.
The thing that put an end to my AHM locomotive purchases was the introduction of the small 3-pole motors in the late 60’s-early 70’s. They overheated and burned out VERY easily. Coupled with that fact, Athearn got their act together in the mid-60’s with the introduction of the SD45s etc. with better motors and excellent pulling power.
My whole point here is that these models should be considered in the context of their time, and for a time in the early to mid-'60’s, as far as affordable plastic locos and cars went, AHM was the best deal for the money.
One of my favorite steamers I had in the 60s was a AHM IHB 0-8-0…I used that engine at the Columbus MRR club for about 2 years then I bought a used United Models UP 0-6-0 and sold the 0-8-0 to another member.
The exact evolutionary chain for the company from the 1950’s until its recent demise goes as follows:
H.O.Train Co. = AHM = IHC
They were all one and the same, just re-organizing under a new name when they experienced difficulties. From the outset they were strictly importers and never manufacturers of anything themselves. At the very beginning they also apparently had ties to Polk Hobbies in NYC, who was the first to import Rivarossi models, along with some early brass and diecast models from Japan.
Since the company’s owner is no longer with us and Mehano has re-organized recently indicating its main thrust will now be toward European equipment, there will be no further iterations of this outfit.
CNJ831
Check out North West Short Line.
Do they have plastic trays inside the boxes or are they foam? The company switched to the plastic in about 1970. Some of the better passenger “preimer” equipment got felt covered plastic trays.
Are the wheels on the cars made out of metal or are they plastic?
Also the AHM equipment boxes had some outlines of railroad blue prints and said, “true to blueprint” on the box. Since you didn’t mention that I am guessing they were manufactured between 1970 and 1983. Fairly recent stuff and definitely not their best, as they were heavily going toward the economy part of that trilogy at that time.
I have over 150 Rivarossi, IHC and AHM passenger cars from the 60’s-80’s as well as many of their engines from that time period and still run them. Most have been repowered and I use code 100 track to get around the deep flanges. I still collect and use these cars as well as some of their freight cars that I converted to knuckle couples either kadee or McHenry. As far as value… Heavyweight in the original box is about $15-25 dollar range, except for certain road names that limited productions were made, then the price jumps to about $30-$40 range. Smoothside in the original box is about $10-$15 dollars for RPO’s and Baggage cars, $10-$25 for 85’ passenger cars. Observation cars vary depending on the road name and the Vista Dome cars are much harder to find and they get a higher price. I have 14 domes mostly the rare ones such as B&O, C&O, NYC, BN. the most common dome is GN’s Empire Builder. Also the Delux sleepers go for about $15-$25 range. As for engines I have alot of 4-6-2’s they go for about $20-$40 dollar range, 2-8-2 go for about $30-$50 range and the mallets 2-8-8-0 and 2-8-8-2 run about $120.00. If you are interested in doing some trading I am interested in the B&O RS-2 you have. Let me know and perhaps we could do some trading if you are interested. Hope to price guide helps you.
Ray
You can remotor that engine with a can motor. I have repowered most of my engines with can motors, I can give you a list of can’s I used, don’t know if they would work, there is a gentleman that sells a CD with a exploded parts list of rivarossi/IHC/AHM engines with part numbers. I used that to match up which engines used the same motor so I could buy the right parts to retro fit the engines. I can send you the list of engines and what can’s I used and get a copy of this CD and see which engine has the same type of motor as your’s and use that can motor for the repower.
Well IHC Texas does seem to be evolving, the web site has been updated and there are a few more things from the old IHC product line on the site. http://www.ihc-hobby.com/
Mehano on the other hand, still has the entire US loco line on the web site and now show that some of them are available with DCC and sound.
[quote user=“Anonymous”]
The older Rivarossi-AHM models had very deep wheel flanges, and the locomotives had noisy rough running motors.They are a collectors’ item to some, but virtually never sought out for actual railroading.In the mid-to-late 70’s, Rivarossi switched to ".039"flanges, which were not RP25 wheels, but at least they didn’t bounce thru turnouts.AHM printed “with .039 flanges” on one end of the box on these newer units.
Value is always whatever anyone is willing to pay.The suggestion to check ebay is good,it tells you what people are actually paying.
I sell equipment at train shows several times a year.
Most older AHM-Rivarossi steam locos go for the equiv. of (USD$) :
Switchers $20-30
Pacifics, Hudsons $50-60
Articulateds $80-100
diesels $12-15
freight cars $2-3
lighted passenger cars $12-15
“New in Box” of all these gets maybe 10-15% more $.
Your ‘made in Yugoslavia’ models are made by Mehano, in Slovenia, who make a lot of stuff for IHC and for ‘house-brand’ grocery and hardware train sets.Not much value for ‘old Mehano’.
regards / Mike
“Thanks for the price list, Mike. This reply to your 11-year-old post means that someone looking for those prices in 2014 will be greatly disappointed. You will find “Big Boys” going for $550 on eBay . . . Wak! And don’t even bother to look for .039” flanged drives To replace the “pizza-cutter” drivers on your Y6b.
Finally, you over-underestimated products coming from IHC in Slovenia. I bought one of their 2-10-2 steam locos for about $100 five years ago and it is wonderful. Of course, even IHC has gone belly-up since my purchase! I’m sorry I didn’t get a half dozen of these finely detailed locos because they are fine runners, and don’t seem to have the vexing weakne
I’m in Niagara Falls, NY and there is an outlet store here called Ollie’s - kinda like Big Lots is becoming but not as organized. Anyway, for Christmas 2012 they had boxes of IHC kits for $5 and $6 each… I kick myself I didn’t buy more. So cheap for scratch building.
I often reference my MR back issues for articles and recall recently coming across the 3-page AHM adverts someone mentioned… The problem with being in the hobby is remembering buying Varney and Athearn cars for a buck and a half! But then gas/oil was a heckuva lot cheaper too! So was milk & bread. I follow the manufacturing in China and how the buyouts in recent years plus the high oil prices have directly increased the cost of plastics whether in the model railroad field or elsewhere.
It seems many are becoming scratchbuilders for different reasons that the models of the 40’s and 50’s and it’s not because the product isn’t available - it’s cuz it’s gotten so expensive. Maybe the time/cost ratio is in par with today, but it’s not with my pocketbook. Today, you really have to be patient and the deals come around. Just be ready or else you’ll be waiting longer the next time around! www.facebook.com/justrains.group
Thread’s got more lives than a cat. Nice link, btw.
Eleven years old, apparently still relevant. Last summer I bought about a half dozen AHM cars from a hobby shop who landed an estate sale. I paid about 2 to 4 dolars each for some freight cars, just because they looked so nice in their original boxes.
I have a Mehano (IHC) 2-10-2 also, as well as four 2-6-0s They all run better than any Rivarossi ever did. Dan
About the 2-10-2´s: I still don´t have this model but I want to buy one these days. When searching around on the internet, I found out that there are 3 different versions of the 2-10-2. Or maybe it´s only 3 different styles of boxes but models might all have the same features, I don´t know:
Version 1: IHC COMMAND XXV box (part of their Premier Gold Series), engine is positioned above the tender.
Version 2: Mehano box (Part of their Prestige line), engine is positioned above the tender.
Version 3: Mehano, but which product line exactly it is I don´t know. But the tender is positioned behind the engine, so they are both in one line.
I´m asking myself now: are all these 3 versions DCC ready (also ready for speaker installation) and do they feature a metal frame, sprung drivers and a 5 pole skew wound can motor with brass flywheel?
To be honest I wanna buy that last version (version 3 (PRR)) because the seller doesn´t live too far away from me and offers a good price, so I really wanna go for this model. But the fact that the tender is positioned behind the engine and the fact that I can´t find photos of the outer box on the internet really makes me worry that it might be some old Mehano Train Line junk, although the sellers writes that the engine is DCC ready, what again makes me think that it might be identical with the ones being sold as Mehano Prestige and IHC Command XXV. Can somebody familiar with these models/manufacturers maybe clear that up for me?
I have an Erie version of this 2-10-2, one of the Command XXVs. It does not have a flywheel, and as for the 5 pole, I can’t say for sure, but I think it’s a 3 pole. I wouldn’t let that stop me from purchasing it, because it runs like a 5 pole, smoothly and quietly even at decent low speeds. It draws very low current too. I run DC, and am happy with it’s performance, and I’ve read that it runs better on DCC.
This locomotive was what made me go to the bother to make a turntable large enough to handle it.
That´s interesting because in all the descriptions that I read on the internet they say it has a flywheel. But 3 pole or 5 pole motor is not so important for me. There are some very good 3 pole motors around that indeed run like 5 pole motors like you say. And I heard and read many positive reviews about this model and every owner seems to be very satisfied with it´s running characteristics. Of course I plan to install a high quality DCC decoder with sound, so I hope it will be very good perfomer then. I will modify this PRR engine into a SP engine by replacing the tender with a correct SP hicken style oil tender, by modifying the cab a little bit, by overpainting the yellow cab lettering and red cab roof with black paint, by adding correct SP decals for the F5 class 2-10-2 on the cab, by painting the smokeboxdoor white, by adding some SP-sepcific detail on the pilot platform, by removing the original pilot and attaching a brass SP pressed steel pilot, by modifying the headlight casing and also maybe by removing the center dome and adding numberboards. Should be a very nice model then. Can´t wait to start the work on it!
I have the same 2-10-2 in union pacific runs great on DCC
As long as this string has kept going, maybe I can fill in some of the gaps because I was there during some of the later years of AHM and worked with Birney Paul on a number of projects. About 1980 or so when AHM wanted to have Rivarossi make the Heisler(logging engine) their bank, I think it was PSFS, began having problems and then a whole lot of things happened. One result was that all of a sudden, Rivarossi trains got new price tags- much higher than previously. But after this time it was never imported in the quantities as earlier, and of course, Woolworth 5 and 10 cent stores are gone.
AHM actually started in the 40s with airplanes, but it was around the time that the Polks Aristo was really getting started in trains again in the 50s that AHM got a lot of similar and the same products. “New Ones”- die cast locos, for example came in under both Aristo and AHM labels. Birney Paul took trips around the world to see where useful model items were being made, and was very interested in what Rivarossi had to show. Rivarossi had already done one year or so manufacturing for Lionel as Lionel HO, and a few of the early models persist at train shows. The FM C-Liner diesel, for example, was, as I recall a bit more elaborate than the later ones, and with good reason. For years the later production came listed on the box as “Made under License from Rivarossi” and came from the Mehanotechnika plant in Yugoslovia, now Slovenia. As mentioned, there were changes to the model over the years and later AHM imported a GP18 from Mehano, for example, plus a ton of freightcars, often knockoffs of not only Rivarossi but also of Athearn. Roco supplied some cars too, and Tempo- an Eastern bloc company(Mehano) plant in neutral Austria. (Austria had been divided like Germany for several years, and was reunited but as a neutral country)
Now the meat of the piece here- Mr. Paul wanted to make a New York Central Hudson- I believe that was the first large plastic locomotive they came
. .