I like what I’ve seen and read about Alclad 2 lacquers. And the tips and posts by Antonio (FP45) have only deepened my interests.
I’d like to custom paint a Southwest Chief trainset using Walthers Superliners. I’ll likely use undecorated Superliners and they come in a grey color.
I’d really like to simulate the stainless steel look of a Superliner without making the car too shiny. My main concern with Alclad, especially the chrome paint, is it appears too shiny for Superliners. The weird thing about Superliners is they tend to have a brown tint. This is likely from weathering and sand blasting effects from years of service, but even when they are washed they still have a slight brown tint and also a bit of blue.
I’m wondering if stainless steel might give me better results then chrome. Or maybe the under coat should be different than gloss black. I also haven’t been able to find a paint sample of stainless steel on Alclad’s website.
Any help or tips are appreciated and to familiarize everyone with what real Superliners look like, take a look at these 2 links:
I’ve looked at hundreds of photos of streamlined U.S and Canadian passenger trains in Don Ball books and on the web. Even when dirty, they almost always had a reflective shine.
I started noticing that the silver finishes on plastic streamlined HO & N scale passenger cars just don’t look realistic. I read about various metalizing processes (foil, buffing/polishing, etc,) but was turned off. Then I read that 2003 Model Railroader issue and “Wala! A simpler process”![:D] I experimented and did make some mistakes (mainly due to rushing). After slowing down my usual fast pace, the process for a klutz like me became a piece of cake.
A. Re: The Alclad Chrome Shine. - Not to worry.[8D] The key to a realistic, prototype finish is in the Clear Coat(s) [;)][tup]. Use Gloss Coat, whether solvent based or acrylic. Don’t use Flat. See the July or Aug 2003 Model Railroader for the Alclad on the RDCs article.
On my Rivorossi Diner and Coach. I applied only one thin gloss coat of clear to each shell. The high shine toned down immedietly to a realistic, “as delivered” appearance by Budd.
For my Rivorossi Sleeper Observation lounge, I applied two thin gloss coats of clear and toned it down even more. I compared it to the other two cars. It
Thank you, very helpful information. I have just a few more questions [D)]
On the gloss clear coat, is this before or after decaling? Is Alclad glossy enough to decal straight onto? I’d hate to get fingerprints on the metal finish while adding decals though. If this is prior to decaling then what about sealing the decals? And then what about blending weathering? Can you even weather over Alclad with chalks or light airbrush passes?
What clear coat paints do you tend to use? Floquil? Testors? Other?
I like the idea of varying layers of the clear coat. I plan to have 2 recently refurbished cars and they were noticeably shinier then the rest of the consist I’m basing this off of. I’m using a consist I just traveled on. It’s nice to be able to make notes and take photos when you’re on the real train. Wish we could do the same for Santa Fe passenger models [V]
Scalecoat II or other oil based paints as the primer is what I was looking into since I prefer to use oil based paints when airbrushing. My airbrush seems harder to clean when using water based paints.
I would like to paint the interior walls appropriate colors, and may later on add actual interiors. I’d prefer to airbrush so do you think I should do this first, then block up the windows with tape, do the gloss black on the exterior, and then add the Alclad? I really do not want to put any tape on the Alclad, and the potential for over spray and bleeding on the perfect metal finish sounds like a no no.
I suppose I could get both stainless steel and chrome and compare on test strips to see which looks the most like a Superliner. How far do you think a 1 oz bottle will go? Could it do 9 cars…8 Superliners, and one baggage car?
Almost forgot. I’ve read that when airbrushing Alclad,
On the gloss clear coat, is this before or after decaling?
Before decaling.
Is Alclad glossy enough to decal straight onto?
Fingerprints will show up. It’s best to apply at least one gloss coat of clear and allow it to cure. One can then apply the decals and seal them with more gloss clear. It’s pretty much the same procedure we use when applying decals on solid colors. IMHO, modelers that decide to try Alclad on streamlined passenger cars will likely apply 2 to 4 coats of clear, anyway, since most of us don’t want them to appear brand new.
And then what about blending weathering?
Once the Clear Coat is dry, you weather just as with solid colors. In the 2003 MRR article the author did a beautiful weathering job on his RDCs, including rust streaks on the stepwell.
What clear coat paints do you tend to use? Floquil? Testors? Other?
I’ve switched over to Badger Modelflex and Polly Scale Clears as I dislike fumes. I did use Floquil Clear on one of my Metroliners. Results were good with both Solvent based and Acrylic based clears.
I like the idea of varying layers of the clear coat. I plan to have 2 recently refurbished cars and they were noticeably shinier then the rest of the consist I’m basing this off of. I’m using a consist I just traveled on. It’s nice to be able to make notes and take photos when you’re on the real train. Wish we could do the same for Santa Fe passenger models [V]
Ah, good! An opportunity for experimenting. Whether you decide to use Chrome or Stainless Steel, try doing 2 shells at the same time for compariso
I just finished a B-29 model in1:48 scale with Model Masters “steel”. I picked it for its slightly brown sheen which my photos of the real thing showed. I airbrushed on about four coats then a coat of testors clear lacquer. Then decals and then two more light coats of clear lacquer. I may have gotten away with something as I read on the spray can not to use it over high sheen metals such as AL,Cu Etc.Steel wasn’t mentioned. You could PM me if you want to see the results or just check the B-29 thread I posted on FSM a week or so ago.
We use chrome paints quite regularly in the restoration process of diecast cars. I highly recommend reading this tuitorial. There are numerous points made above that are almost self-defeating - especially regarding the base coat and clear coats. Again, this tuitorial is geared towards restoring the chrome plating on cars, but the process is the same. When done properly, the results are spectacular - check out the pics …
Mark, by all means please list which points that are “self defeating”.
Keep in mind that unlike model diecast cars, we are not trying to achieve an “ultra-chrome-spit polish” appearance that is seen on the link you provided. That would make our passenger cars look extremely “toy-like”. (BTW: I am a hot rod nut as well [8D])
We are trying to simulate the surfaces seen on prototype Budd, Pullman Standard, and ACF corrugated streamlined passenger cars. So far these simple steps have worked for a number of modelers and the results speak for themselves in the MRR article I mentioned above.
If one wishes to use a “non” scale model clearcoat product, Future Floor Finish is a better deal pricewise and easier to use than Min-Wax as it does not require thinning.
First, let me say you are not doing it “wrong” if the end result you get is what you are after. My self-defeating comment was towards the people who haven’t used this stuff as much as we have and are not fully aware of the physical properties of the stuff.
Alclad II requires a solvent sensitive base coat to allow the chrome paint to etch itself to, this prevents the chrome paint from rubbing off easily. An acrylic base will not provide sufficient adhesion for the Alclad II and you’ll find the metallic particles will not adhere fully to the surface. The base coat also needs to be as smooth and clean as possible to attain the metallic appearance. This just doesn’t apply to the Alclad II Chrome, but all the metal finishes.
After the Alclad dries, there WILL be some particles not fully etched to the surface and may cause a dull blotchiness. Take your part and very, very gently using some warm running water, a soft toothbrush, and some liquid dish detergent wash your part all over and then rinse it. Immediately after rinsing take a soft cloth, and just gently dry/buff your part.
At this point, you will have the desired finish intended whether it’s chrome, stainless steel or whatever you are using. Clearcoating over Alclad II is always a gamble. ANY solvent based clear will cause the fine mtallic particles to become dislodged from their surface and reorintate themselves in the clear which affects the effect of the metallic look. An acryllic clear like Future will not cause the metallic particles to re-surface, and the orientation of the metallic particles will be for the most part unaffected. Once the Future has set, the Alclad II is now sealed and you can proceed to decal and clear with whatever final finish you desire.
These methods should be strictly adhered to to attain the best possible finish as intended. as for spraying Alclad II, use a PSI between 40-50 lbs when spraying the chrome paint. The higher PSI allows for a finer smoother coating. <
Thanks for the information you posted. I have to disrespectfully disagree regarding the air pressure. According to my experiments as well as Alclad’s recommendations…lower air pressure with a narrow fan on the air brush works exceptionally well. .
I still prefer acrylics for solid color and weathering jobs but on the last two passenger cars that I metalized I applied solvent based Scale Coat II Gloss Black as the base. I was very satisfied with the results. I’ve used acrylics on other metalizing jobs as well to experiment as there are some modelers that prefer to use acrylics only. The finishes were just as glossy.
I must admit that for me the advantage the solvent based Scale Coat II has is that, properly thinned, it’s a one step process and it cures quickly. For now I’m going to continue using SC II for metalizing bases. [;)]
