I am curently looking at some alco (model manufacturer) locomotives in brass and I wanted to know before i bought any models if they had any problems and a little history behind the company (model manfaturer - not prototype).
I own the Virginian EL-2, very nice, however they were known to snap the gears on them, being plastic. I bought mine for 50 bucks from a modeler, busted gears and all. I looked it over and put NWSL gears on it, but the lower gears couldnt mesh with the truck gear train, so I took the entire
truck frame and ground down its thickness to mesh. This lowered the gear tower slightly but runs fabulous! Daring and tricky thing for me to do on a prized model. Luckily I own a NWSL gear assortment I bought my hobbyshop I frequent, sold it cheapo, which has a good variety of gears in it to pick, I can size gears, if I dont have one, I can order it.
Model runs a little slower than original, which is fine with me the gear selection was on purpose to slow it down, I balked on the idea of grinding down, but went, oh well, here goes nuthin…
I own the EL-1 jack shaft models, superb models, no probs.
Alco brass models are rather the definition of “old brass”. Detail is decent, but is rather crude by today’s plastic models (let alone brass). For example, the radiator grills are usually solid brass castings.
Electrical pick up is only half of each truck. So if you’ve got an GP9 from Alco, only 4 of the 8 wheels pick up power. This is not good. It’s possible to rig some extra pick up, but it better be something that’s really worth the effort.
Where Alco models really fall down is the drive. Split gears, rotting rubber couplings, no flywheels, etc. IOW, they’re pretty bad. Test run these before buying, for certain. Even then, consider repowering them ASAP.
I have actually put an Atlas S-unit drive under an Alco models S-6 body, and it works great now. [:)] But the original drive was shot. There were bits of rubber from the universals all over the interior of the shell they were rotting so bad.
IMHO, stay away from these models unless you can repower them…or just put them on the shelf to look pretty. Whatever you do, don’t pay a lot of money for 'em.
Paul A. Cutler III
Weather Or No Go New Haven
Paul is mainly correct, although some latter diesels were built by Samhongsa rather the KMT and have a better drive. Also watch their steam locomotives, depending on the builder some were very good or the absolute worst, the NYC K-3 Pacific was a piece of junk to be avoided at all costs.
Rick
I have one of their RSD-15’s that I bought several years before BLI came out with theirs. Decent looking model, and the previous owner had already remotored it with a Mashima motor and flywheels. If yours has the original motor, I’d strongly consider doing the same.
The electrical pickup is the other issue I had with it. I ended up fabricating some wipers from phosphor bronze wire and a piece of PC board so that both trucks now pick up power from both rails.
As far as the gearing, you just have to watch out for cracked gears on the tower itself…the worms and axle gears don’t appear to have that problem. If your do have cracked gears, I believe NWSL has replacement sets available.
As has already been said, these aren’t bad models. Not quite up to par with the detailing on “modern” locomotives, but not bad.
My ‘ALCO’ Brass diesels were made by Kumata (KMT), and had noisy tower gears and a square motor that pulled 1 amp each to run.
I ended up replacing the entire drives for $100 each.
They sound and run like coffee grinders! They look Ok though.
I have a few that I tried to sell but found no takers. So, rather than give them away, I repowered them. I put Atlas motors and trucks in two Alco switchers, Atlas trucks and Kato motor in an SD7, a Proto 2000 GP7 chassis in a RS1, a Stewart C630 chassis in the Alco Models C630.
Now they look decent and run beautiful. Note that the parts are not a drop in fit. It requires some cutting and fitting but if you don’t mind tinkering, you’ll get a nice running loco.
Jim
thanks, after all of this information i dont think that $105.00 is a fair deal for a GP30 from ALCO, so i think ill invest in Proto geeps.
thanks everyone
Good idea! The Proto units have lots more detail and will probably pull more as well. Repowering is OK if you enjoy doing it. P2K diesels cost less too.
Jim
Wait and save a few more $$$ and buy a more quality brass loco. Alco has the worst detail of any brass engines (meaning there isn’t any detail), and also have terrable running qualities. Listen to the advise above.
Mike
Alco models imported two runs of the Alco S-1, S-2, S-3, and S-4 switchers.
The first run was made by KMT of Japan in the 1970s, and they are junk. The body shells look toy-like (i.e. tinplate), and the drivetrains look cheesy.
The second run was made by Samhongsa of Korea in the 1980s, and the body shells are downright gorgeous. I don’t know how well they run but they look hundreds of times better than the KMT models.
The New Haven EP-4 was a nice looking unit, though. I’ve seen a few pop on on ebay, but the bid prices wind up exceeding my tight budget. I do hope to snag one eventually, one of these years!
Mike,
it’s not that simple. ALCO actually did produce some VERY fine models - it just depends on the actual engine. E. g. the PRR T1 4-4-4-4 is really good, as well as the PRR 2-10-2, and even more the ERIE 2-10-2 - a very special looking engine - and without any alternative btw. Generally I agree that their diesels are not highly regarded, but there are exceptions, and concerning steam engines one can say that the Korean ones usually run fine and mostly look fine, and the older Japanese ones feature great and rock-solid craftsmanship but have problematic drive lines. But also here are exceptions. I have two ALCO models, a P&LE class A-2a 2-8-4 and a NYC class B-11 0-6-0, and both of these are very fine models. Both are Japanese and both run great, the latter even has a good can motor although it was built in the 1970s.
well i waent to a train show on sunday, and i got an ALCO DL-701 for $100.00 i got one of the kmt’s but someone had detailed it, along with re- geared it. i have yet to replace the motor in it. I love it, its my first brass locomotive, but just in case I dident like it. I bought a halmark models GP18 that is going to get painted into GTW with a little work, it requires some steam tubes and the movement of the bell.
I´m totally agree with the oppinions on regard the performance of the Alco Products KMT locomotives, they have this square “high amperage eater” motors. The mechanism is very noicy and the quality of the trucks is not so good however, there were not other choice for me, specially for the model I need, the DL-702 or RSD-12. I understand that many time ago, probably mid 80´s or early 90´s Atlas manufactured the RSD-12 but there are not any more on the market, even on ebay. So I decide to go for the Alco-KMT models and of course, the only idea was “repowering”. I have to recognice the advice and recommendations make by David Rygmyr, owner and president of North West Shore Lines. He recommended me to use NWSL motors, replacing the old “current eaters”, and the replacement gearing sets, made of acetal plastic or CELCON. By difference with the original KMT gears, this were mere plastic cast ones. The NWSL are preshrunk machined gears that assures you that they are going to be “long lasting” ones. By other hand, they have the “brass” versions of this gears. I installed the new gears, they fit great, the operation of the motors is good, but the mechanism is still noici (you have to pay some price). Anyway, I think the effort woths the time and money, meanwhile there is not more options for my “FERROCARRIL DEL PACIFICO” (FCP) RSD-12.
Regards from Mexico City.
Ricardo Hernandez-Lecanda.