Chip,You being new to the hobby and still in the wow stage I can fully understand and respect your views…However,as you grow in the hobby you will understand my thoughts far better…I recall 2 other modelers bursting into the modeling scene in the 60s that will go far beyond Farlow,Allen and Sellios.These two man has change the course of the hobby in the way we model and build our layouts.Those men Allen McClellan and Tony Koester has done more to inspire the hobby then Allen,Furlow and Sellios will ever do.Then lets not forget the father of car card/waybills Doug Smith that change our ways of handling cars.Another ground shaker was Lynn Westcott that lead the way as editor of MR…
So,you see Allen,Furlow and Sellios are good modelers but not ground shakers.There is no doubt about that.[:D]
Ditto on all counts. I’ve never been impressed by Allen, Sellios, Furlow. or those who copy them, no matter how skilled their modeling may be. I hold Bill Darnaby’s work to be the most realistic in print today, and he’s a freelancer.
As argument, this is a fallacy known as a solipsism, and the essence of it is “only I (or someone like me) can understand my point of view.”
That aside, I agree that Linn Westcott is important, as is Allen McClellan. But all I see here is the unproven assertion that “other people are greater” and that they’ve done “more” to inspire than JA. Which may be true, for you - but is it true for the population of modelers at large? And if so, how do we know?
Rob,I suppose you could start with asking older modelers (above 55) that was around in John’s day…Be prepared to hear answers you may not like.
I’m not an artist either but I know that there is a difference between a landscape and abstract expressionism.
If you look at layout design theory a s a continum, you can place Furlow at one end and Koester at the other. But either one one has a layout that holds the integrety for what they were trying to accomplish. There couldn’t have been a Koester or Furchow without Allen’s work and there will be others that follow that will build on Furlow and Koester.
If you look at layouts as an art form, and they are, then layout art is a progression of building upon the discoveries of others. Koester went one direction Furlow went another.
And like art is determined by muesums, layout art is determined by the publications. Every once in a while someone comes along and breaks the mole. Furlow is one. Koester is another, though I would argue, not so much. Koester is a mentalist, who sees the layout in the form of art imitating nature. Furlow sees the layout as art flowing from within.
There will be a steady flow of Koesters that “move the hobby forward.” It’s the Furlows and Selioses that keep them honest.
I am one of those “Older Modelers” and “THE” influence was JA. Wescott conviced me I could do it and taught me new skills. Sassi is important on this round. All the other people mentioned added much, but JA was the first to show me humor, artistry, and mountains as I thought they ought to be. His Varney adds were in inspiration then and still are as I read the old MRs. I still look at them and say, I can do that, not as well, but it will be fun. I am glad there are others who equally inspire others, and the new generation is looking up to you guys as well they ought.
I have. I have either been in or around the Army for most of my adult life, and so I’ve come across a lot of people who passed through Monterey when Allen was modeling. If there’s some personal issue involved, well and good - the one man I knew who disliked him was himself a pretty cranky fellow, and he objected to what he saw as JA’s crankiness. But I know and know of a lot more people who knew him personally who praise his ability, his personality, and his sense of humor - and they’re people like Andy Sperandeo, John Armstrong’s son, and the late Linn Westcott, whose praises ran to book length. If you have a definitive critique, I’m prepared to hear it - but “be prepared to hear answers you won’t like” isn’t it.
Probably one body of work that influenced me, or should I say inspired me, was the work of Paul Templar.
He has his own distinct style that is often imitated. But although his work is excellent, an artist in anyone’s book, I don’t place him with Furlow or Selios or Allen. Clearly, he has little in common with Koester. He does have a following, perhaps greater than Furlow or even Koester. But I wonder 20 years from now, what his contribution will be to layout art. I also wonder how much that will be determined by MR.
Certainly, I don’t think I suggested you don’t… The reason I Ask is Because I would like to see what your version of “realistic” is… You clearly had nothing positive to add to this particular thread but yet you chose to bash it. As for being “fair and consistent”, My web page and email are and always have been linked at the bottom of every one of my posts where it says EMAIL and WEB, Just to the right of where it says Profile. Anyone who wants to is free to look and if they so choose, write.
Best back at ya, Jeff.
Wow isnt it funny how we can still have Rivet Counters dissing other layouts that dont fit into thier predefined notion of what constitutes a “Real” layout?
Funny but i always thought this was a “Hobby” where the individual modeler was allowed to created his own version of reality thru the lense of there layout, hence we get George Sellios magnificent layout and Furlows layouts that are very much works of art more so than an exact layout, But based on some of these posts I guess its supposed to be a precise science where anything resembling FUN or a SENSE OF HUMOR was to be cast into the abiss. God forbid you actually ENJOY making things up!
Maybe I’ve just been stuck in my garage too long but to me this entire hobby has always been about having fun, fun as in creating my own world and not slaveishly replicating a piece real world. If someone wants Dinosaurs pushing cars onto sidings and can do it convincingly, terrific!.
Some of you guys need to loosen up a little, have some fun, and buy a dinosuar!
Whats wrong with Disney-like layouts? I mean that Disneyland is a BIG layout. Walt told the people that built Disney land that he wanted the park built around the trains not the trains around the park.
As to the discussion about John Allen I have not seen much of his layout but I have read many articles and really enjoy them. I have gotten a lot of information from him.
Victor
Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]
Chip,
If you like that, there’s a fellow who periodically writes for the “Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette” named Alexander Zelkin. Does some great logging scenes - you might want to check it out.
Chip,Good question…Paul does museum quality work that can be rival by few and he’s more then willing to share how he got there.I believe he has had articles printed in some magazine.[:D]
Paul has modeling tutorials on his website
http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/amr/index.htm
One of the original pioneers of presenting info on the internet. The internet permits people to have web articles without the cronism of the printed press. The printed press tends to print articles from “contributers” they know.
His site is a must see
Just a thought
Harold
OK, let’s lighten up some of the tense responses here.
20 years from now, ya’ll will be talking about how much Grande Man furthered the hobby thru the use of Atlas bridges. [:D] Oh yeah, and since we’ve been challenged to post pics of our work…
Seriously though, I do like Paul Templar’s work, even though I’m not a huge logging RR follower. He’s quite a photographer as well.
I can see the thread now. “Too many Grande Man Atlas bridges?”
Just a thought
Harold
Yep. [;)]
I think what we’ve all forgotten is that John Allen came along in the 1950’s, when HO scale model railroading was just beginning to emerge from the dark ages. His eye for detail (and frankly, his sense of humor) was a real eye-opener for modelers during that time (like myself). Looking back from our perspective, perhaps he overstated some things, but he also let us know what COULD be done. And his articles on realistic operations were relatively new for that time.
Historically speaking, John Allen’s impact on the hobby was something akin to daVinci arriving on the scene right after the caveman learned how to mix various types of clay to make paint.
The hobby didn’t arrive fully formed, remember. There had to be pioneers. Allen was a pioneer, and as such, his impact on the hobby was considerable. Say what you like about his approach, but I’m willing to bet the bank that most of us at some point or another on our own model railroads have incorporated at least SOME of his ideas or techniques, consciously or unconsciously. I know that I have.
Tom [:D]
Hey! I just got my 4th star! Should I expect a check in the mail? [:D]
ETA- I agree with you completely, Tom. Allen was a pioneer and we’re all further ahead because of his work.
Yep, check that mailbox and if it isn’t there. Call and email your post office. Gotta keep those guys on their toes.