Some of the elitism in this hobby is way past borderline… and the distinctions are far from artificial.
Would you put a 4 year old pushing his “Thomas” around the Brio track in the same category as George Sellios?
Note: I am not accusing George Sellios of elitism - I am complementing him on being an extremely fine modeler.
I’m with you claycts. If im going to invest in something so costly, Im gonna have fun, not have a second job.
Nope, they’re not the same. But they’re both playing with trains (at their own appropriate level). I’m with MisterBeasley… play is good. If that means I don’t get to be called a model railroader or a railroad modeler, OK by me… (I may decide to be very bad, though, and call myself one anyway when no one’s looking[;)])
Hi George,
As Jeff mentioned above, you alone should be dictating how much to spend on your hobby and more importantly, how much attention you want to give to prototype modeling, including fast clocks, signaling, scenery etc. I don’t know you but someone else above mentioned that you’ve made a lot of progress on your more or less first layout. It sounds to me like you have linked up with some rather advanced modelers and THEY are the ones pushing you in the “rivet-counting” direction.
There’s good and bad with that. The good is that you have very experienced help. The bad is that you may not be as ready as you would like to be to “absorb” all the “rivet counting”. It takes time, even years in this hobby, to really know what all your “rivet counting” options really are and make decisions as to where to begin “counting”.
Please understand that I’m not for or against “rivet counting”. To me, model railroading is the best hobby in the world. I’m 58 years old and just received in the mail a couple of Kadee cars that I bought on Ebay. Opening up those boxes made me feel like the day I opened up my American Flyer train set back in 1953, when I was just 5 years old. That was the best Christmas ever and think about it, I’m feeling that way today just because I bought a couple of Kadee cars on Ebay. It doesn’t get any better than that.
Regarding “rivet counting”. I use the term loosely to mean getting a little more into the world of true model railroading. When I first started in this hobby, I saw weathered engines and rolling stock and commented to my buddy that I couldn’t imagine messing up a perfect paint job with all that weathering. I expected to keep all my engines and rolling stock looking pristine, like they all just came out of the paint shop. Well, I’ve since changed my mind about weathering and what a good model looks like.
Last week, I bought a new DL-109 in the New Haven green/orange scheme and the first thing I did was find that engine in
That was the point. If I had a budget to do this I would have quit a long time ago and just did what I wanted.
I am trying to please other than me and do listen to the RIVET boys and THE TANK ENGINE CROWD.
I took a year off of work to build this and we are into June and just finished the tracks ONLY in phase one. WE flew, building up to the engine terminal, yard and passenger station in a town I CALL Allentown ( i used to race at Dorney Park so I like ALLENTOWN). It took (4) weeks to hash and reha***hat area. In the end I sat down on the computer took all the ideas, opened the book on Engine Terminals and Freight yards and put down the track.
I have a helper coming over Saturday to finish up the hole drilling, and gluing of that area.
I like to build models to a scale and prototype, I like kitbashing what does not fit. I am running a Big Boy, Challenger, Cab Forward and a Y6b along with the Hudson and Berkshire and the other 30 plus I have gotten.
IF I use the Challenger to pull a freigth from Allentown to Nanticoke I do not need to be handed a dunce cap and told to sit in the corner.
I got back into this hobby to lower my blood pressure and it WAS fun till the nit picking started. I am not going to say anything to that person I just will try and understand where he is coming from.
Oh yes one more thing I may be sentenced to death but 95% of the rolling stock is NOT from the east coast and there are Union Pacific and Southern Pacific running on Central Jeresy tracks and the govenment WILL NOT take over and bring on Con Rail or AMTRACK on this railroad. If you have one of those and want to run it and it is DCC you are welcome, but do not ask me to NOT run a BIG BOY because it was never on those tracks. My answer was have you ever been to Steam Town? How did that Big Boy ge
Simon, I was in the hobby from 1952 till 1974 I then redescovered the hobby thanks to my current wife (another story) and her understanding. I started designing this thing in 2003. The local train club had no place to go so I said if you help me build it I will supply the money, space and material to build a ckub size railroad in my basement. we are building this one to the scenery stage wher my wife and I eill take over. Then we move on to another ckub memebr and get their railroad up to that stage. Mine is the SMALL one compared to thst project. 2300 sq ft, 1900 ft of track and 650 turnouts a real monster.
the work comment was the operaton of this requires 9 people and they all have to be trained to do their JOB. Sort of sounds like work[:D][:D]
Hey Mondo,
What a well thought out post! I enjoyed reading it.
Hi Jack,
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. I’m glad the time I spent writing my reply was read and appreciated by somebody. So often on this forum, you spend a lot of time writing and supplying pictures and nobody seems to really notice. For instance, I recently spent time on a posting which included several photos about using Lego items for HO scale applications and only had a couple of responses.]
Thanks again,
Mondo
They probably are, but so what? I don’t see any of your examples as being relevant to me - all of the things you listed are big ticket items intended to display the buyer’s wealth and status . I didn’t just buy my trains. I had to research them in another language, produce my own scale drawings of them, make my own patterns and artwork for castings and etchings to help scratchbuild them. They are a product of my labour, and reflect my skills and abilities. In my opinion, that makes them models, not toys. If your opinion differs, fine. But it’s no more or less valid than mine, or anyone else’s.
I don’t have any qualms or quibbles about “playing with trains”. I’m more than happy to play with the things, whether I’m at work or at home. But I do take exception to the double standard so frequently expressed by posters to this forum.
All the best,
Mark.
You’re right - George is one of the best in the hobby today. I’m probably one of the worst. However, we’re both model railroaders. We both play with trains.
Now, I’m far from a world-must-be-fair level-playing-field-Utopian, but what I’m commenting on is the “you all are merely playing with trains whereas ” jerks thumb at chest “am modeling a railroad” attitude. Or that you must satisfy somebody’s else’s minimum requirements of operation, realism, and prototype adherence to have the appellation bestowed.
I guess I should have said that distinctions are arbitrary rather than artificial, though they are both.
I bet everyone at one time or another has gone to his or her layout with a beer or coffee in hand and just for the hell of it [ and when no one was looking ] played trains. I bet that old loco came off the shelf or out of that box tucked away some place and put on the layout ahead of those modern cars just for fun and let her rip. I know i do just for a laugh. There is time for serious modeling like super detailing that box car or locomotive and time to sit back and relax isn`t that what this hobby is all about. Fun and sharing with others be they rivit counters or loop-de-looppers on the floor we all started somewhere.
Ah there’s nothing quite so galling as the guy who calls himself a model railroader and all he’s got is a grass mat on the old table in the basement and a bunch of O27 trains.
If you’re having fun then you are doing it right. Personally, I have a scale model layout that I am building, but I also have some O27 trains that I run on a table underneath. They’re both fun. And in my book they are both model railroading.
We’re a small hobby, we should include as many people as we can.
Enjoy
Paul
This hobby is for the fun of building thing with rails. Buildings, cars, people are all about it. Alot of us don’t have 2300 sq. ft. of room to build a dream layout [:(] but would be nice to have. but some of us might only 400sq. ft. in our basement. SO!!!, we do it for the fun of it. [:D] I would really rethink a plan if it took 9 operators to run it.[banghead][%-)] It would just take the fun out of it.[2c][soapbox]
I guess I am wierd [ok I AM wierd lol] but I put on my layout what I like. I have been asked “what RR had all of those locos”?, and I say “mine does”.
And that for me is the point. To be honest I am a “MODEL” railroader and I know very, very little about any prototype. In an evening I can cut, dye and lay 5,000 ties but I have not got a clue how that prototype does it. I can do and understand many things on a model and have no understanding what so ever of how it is done on the prototype. [ok guys don’t get sick on me here lol]
I do MODEL railroading. I don’t do prototype railroading. In this I have been made fun of but I also found that I have more fun than them too.
Granted there are some great layouts done by people who copy every bush and rivet etc. And I truly enjoy looking at them. But I do it because I like the models and not because some prototype has it.
I hope that there are others like this out there too.
Life, for me anyhow, is too short to be so perfect on a hobby. I would rather spend time on my wife and friends.
But that’s me.
I agree. If someone comes over to my place and tells me I can’t do this or I can’t do that because it’s not prototypical, the he** with it not being prototypical, it’s my layout and I’ll run it as I see fit. If I decide to couple an 1860’s woodburner up with 3 F7’s because I might suddenly feel the need to do it, who are you to tell me I can’t do it? Maybe it’s on it’s way to some old time fan trip somewhere. If you don’t like it, you know where the door is. Now excuse me while I send this SD70MAC back in time to 1947 Roswell.
Truer words have never been spoken.
Stephen
I am, or at least was, with you. I considered myself a “miniature” railroader, in that I did not necessarily model any prototype. Miniature trains were/are fun in and of themselves, whether or not they accurately reflect a prototype.
But as time goes on, I find myself more interested in particular eras and prototypes. Not that I want to spend any time researching, but if the material is readily available about West Coast short and narrow gauge lines in the pre-WW1 era I’ll read it, where perhaps I wouldn’t have bothered a few decades ago. Same with learning about how things were done prior to WW1, such as icing and cooling, livestock transport, railroad construction and maintenance, etc. Now I’m starting to be bothered by an electric headlight and generator on my supposedly 1890s locomotive…Help, I’m being assimilated by the rivet counters…resistance is futile…
yours in having fun and enjoying the journey
Fred W
Jeff,The only TRUE difference between George and that 4 year old is George owns a model manufacturing company while in all truth both are playing with trains just like the rest of us.[:D] Sorry…Our models are toys regardless of what we may think or say…
I love my toys…How about you? [:D]
I think there should be one definition of Model Railroading and we should do a Rodney King on everyone that doesn’t get it right.
Nah! We’d have no time for modeling. We’d be too busy beatin’ everybody up.