Your comment made me think of a lot of things, but where we stand in the hobby now vs the older hobby equipment is almost like light years ahead technically.
Lets just say compare LL/Walther’s Berkshire with Bachmanns. You can pick-point compare features, but you get what you pay for, but compare it with the Rivarrossi they are both light years ahead.
I own RR and BLI/PCM y6b’s compare between the 2. I look at the detail on the RR then look at the PCM, then look back at the RR, and say to myself, that detail looks fuzzy compared to the PCM. Thats the difference between technologies. I regeared, filed down flange sizes on my RR, then I buy the PCM, it outperforms my RR for all the work I put into it. I am going YAY for BLI/PCM.
But then there’s this other side of the coin, and its done by masterful effect.
In an old issue of MR is a layout made by F. Lee Jaques in O scale. F. Lee Jaques was a museum Diorama artist. He painted for effect. His layout was done just like that and is absolutely amazing for what he did.
He built his steamers that looked like they were your super heavy massive Y6B like engines, with that monster crawl upgrade look, yet they were small 2-4-4-2’s. Mountain scenery and backdrops expertly painted with snow scenes so real you swear you were quivering in the cold.
F. Lee Jaques took concept and simplified it for effect and works. His layout is on display at the Minnesota Museum of Mining.
Why buy a new BMW when you can buy 2 new Chevy Malibu’s (the fully loaded V-6 model) and walk away with a full bank account? For that matter why not put a down payment on a good house and have half of it payed for right away?
Sheldon, it’s not simply your preception alone in play here, as others have already affirmed. Like it or not, a very significant dicotomy has developed in the hobby over the last decade or so, increasingly separating the traditional craftsmen model railroader from his RTR, gotta-have-the-latest-most-expensive-stuff, bretheren, many of whom, as you point out, lack much in the way modeling abilities and are often less than willing to learn. In many respects it’s becoming a case of collectors vs. modelers.
Now to be clear, this is not meant as an attack on RTRers and those who have lately come into the hobby. Rather it is simply a statement of fact. The situation is one clearly evident in the on-line forums, where you find that in most cases the craftsman types have initiated their own sites and very few participate in the “general” or introductory-level forums
Ain’t model railroading great? I started with trains at age 6 months and didn’t know it because my father, a locomotive engineer for Santa Fe, couldn’t wait to start “building an O scale layout for his son and him”. in the 40’s and 50’s, as I was growing up and finding out about girls, sports, etc., I still spent a lot of time in his basement, and even managed to live at home while going through college, and was able to work for Santa Fe in clerical yard jobs during the summers to pay my way. That O gauge layout remained the “best” to me. then I left home, moved on, and discovered HO in 1959 but I still have a few cars and a loco from that O gauge layout on display in my basement. I have never been without an HO layout since 1959 and for the last 12 years have included a garden railroad out back with large curves, realistic track, etc.
My HO layout in the basement is on tour often, the current layout has been in existence since 1984, and for all purposes is a “finished layout”, but I still update and change. Several years ago, while on an NMRA tour, a group arrived to visit. One was a loud mouth know it all. He had nothing good to say, criticized trackwork that I had built to get my MMR, criticized structures which had been judged in contests, complained about this and that. I stood very patiently until finally his group hustled him out. Afterwards, three of them returned to appologize for the obnoxious one. But, from that day, I adopted a policy, which is stated in print at the entryway when I am on tour, which states: “I enjoy model railroading, and I enjoy using the talents God gave me, and I enjoy the companionship of fellow modelers for operations, visits, etc. But, if you can’t give constructive comments, or can’t restrain your disdain until you walk out the door, then you are not welcome here. This is a hobby, and I enjoy it using what gifts and talents I have.”
There are actually people on the forum who read all the words in a post because there are often little nuggets that are over looked. I think that a comment like the one you made, quoted above, grinny face or not, is one of the things Atlantic Central was talking about. Some people just have to sneak that zinger in. It’s totally unnecessary to off-handedly insult a large part of the hobby, so why do it? Again, the grinny face doesn’t justify it because you just finished expressing displeasure for those who criticize your modeling choices.
I can’t add much to the discussion except this. What we have is not as important as how we use it. If what we have brings us satisfaction then it has done the job. Even better (way better!), if we can use what we have to put a smile on someone else’s face then we’ve really accomplished something. Remember the first time a train moved under it’s own power on a stretch of track you built? That thrill had nothing to do with Atlas, Kato, DCC or BMW’s. Our task as hobbiests is to pass that thrill on to others.
I would like to thank all for their thoughtfull and insightful responses. Reading the responses, especially Pastor Bob, has confirmed the positive in all this and better defined the subject in my mind.
I would like to add the following observation about this shift in the hobby.
In years past, when a modeler of beginning or intermediate experiance could not get something to work as he expected, his first thought might be to ask an older or more experianced modeler for help or advice, which was usually cheerfully given.
Today it seems, that some, not all, have a first reaction that is quite different. They immediately blame the product in question as being cheap, defective, etc, etc. Or, if they do ask for help, and are told you need to do this, or learn how to do that, they balk, asking WHY?, I paid good money for …
And while product design and assembly quality has and always will vary from brand to brand, choosing to only buy “the very best” in this hobby will limit your modeling choices considerably. Learning to make the wide range of great products out there work and represent what you wish to model will on the other hand provide you decades of fun and satisfaction as Pastor Bob explained.
There’s a reason why GM went bankrupt. And its not because they build great cars…because they don’t. Although the reliability of BMW has been dismal in recent years as well.
Sheldon,There is a “divide” in the hobby…And guess what? Surprise! Its as old as the hobby.It was there in my dad’s modeling era,its here today and will be in the years to come.
I remember the time if you bought RTR brass locomotives you was not a “real” modeler after all “real” modelers build theirs from kits or scratchbuilt.
You was looked down upon with contempt if you bought RTR locos and cars from Varney,Cox Linburg or AHM.The Athearn RTR cars was also frowned on.
I dunno but,over the years I seen many things from control systems to modeling ideas come and go.I seen my fair share of “hot shot” modelers come and go and I suspect I will see few more come and go before I head off to that happy model railroad club in the sky or worst firing a steam leaking #9 in the lower inferno regions with a laughing engineer blowing what fire I have out the stack.
Heck,I admit I am a dinosaur modeler that enjoys the old simple ways of the hobby.I tried DCC and sound and liked it but,its not my cup of tea especially on a 1 horse ISL…I don’t get excited with each wind change of the hobby.I seen to many come and go.
To me its the simplicity of enjoying the hobby,railfanning etc.I care not if the old Happy Hollow & Western never owned a SEICO boxcar.That HH&W car looks might sweet painted Blue with the NRUC logo on its door.
Really good post Sheldon and I agree with the majority of responses on here. My layout is anything but common. Unfortunately, I bought a townhouse 2 years before getting into this hobby after a nearly 25 year layoff. The unfortunate part is lack off space, I would have loved to have a basement for a permanent layout but that is not an option, atleast until we upgrade into a newer house. Anyway I don’t have enough space but I have found another option by using life like power-loc track which some have suggested is junk.
In expensive ok I can buy that, but what it allows me to do is not have to worry about benchwork or putting track on cork bed to get it off the floor but rather set up my 18’ X 12’ layout in under an hour and a half. I do this by storing sections of track under the couch and when it is time to set up the layout the sections just snap together.
Oh here is another thing that some will scoff at. I run Athearn 6 axle trains and I run them around, wait for it. 18’’ radius track with overhang. Ah the dreaded overhang. Wait that doesn’t look realistic, why don’t you have larger radius turns? Go back to the first paragraph to answer that one.
In the end, I use what I want to make my layout work for me and if it puts a smile on your face then so be it. Pretty soon I will adding my 7th loco to go along with my 75+ rolling stock fleet.
Maybe the message in all of this is that, in our own spaces, we are The Kings. Why we do what we do the way we do it is nobody’s business but our own. We spend the bucks, we get the yucks.
Live and let live,…but please, stop the continual chest-beating about how much better you are than I, or that your way is better than mine. If I agreed with you, I’d be doing it your way. I don’t.
Some of my best model railroad times in the recent past have been resurrecting a couple of old celler-rescued Bowser and Mantua steam locomotives that would not be considered state of the art by anyone. These engines were seriously corroded and moldy, but the old open frame motors could be coaxed back to life, and the drives could be adjusted to peak efficiency and a surprisingly low noise level (although I never believed steam locos should be silent). A few scrounged detail parts from too-far-gone Rivarossi engines, and all is well with the world.
Different drummer? Maybe. I love scale accuracy, super detail, and all that, but bringing a loco back to life with my own hands and ingenuity is really satisfying. And, the cost is very low. And, these engines can actually pull a heavy train up a grade, at a reasonable main line speed, or switch at walking speed. The enduring part of the hobby is in the building and running, for me, using old-school DC (which ALWAYS works!).
A month ago I responded to a “serious model railroader” posting and had my response removed as being undiplomatic and insulting; the moderator advised me that if I didn’t like a response ‘ignore it’.
I am not a “serious model railroader”–I am an N-Scaler and, hence, beneath contempt! First off I am a diesel afficionado! About ten years ago I bought a couple of “pre-Walthers” Life-Like PAs instead of purchasing much better running Kato units; I don’t use Atlas Code 55 track but use Micro Engineering product instead–if postings here on the forum are an indication it is more difficult to work with than Atlas track but I’ve been using it for so long and have created templates to facilitate its bending and I’m comfortable with it; I tried hand laying track when I first got into N-Scale but, as I have related, I never got into that aspect of track laying and eventually went to flex track; I don’t purchase ready-to-install switches but instead elect to build my own a necessity mandated by the fact that when I got into N-Scale Code 55 track a quarter century ago the only switches available were #6s, a size fine for industrial trackage but hardly conducive for the high iron; I have yet to shed my motive power and rolling stock of unsightly cast on detail but that is in my future; heresy-of-heresies, I actually have a handful of Bachmann Spectrum dash-eights that run great. Add to the list the fact that I am a freelancer, which is indicative of basic laziness.
In 1981 my wife and I attended the NMRA convention in San Mateo, Calif; one of the layouts on a tour was an N-Scale layout with about 250 feet of track. As I was leaving the bus I overheard one guy say to another, “Don’t bother going in there! It’s only an N-Scale layout.” That “only an N-Scale layout” got featured in MR, RMC, and N-Scale magazine. The brass hat is now deceased but his layout was quite inspirational and the detail he had incorporated into his
There will always be people who feel that their way of doing something or their possessions are better than someone else’s way of doing something or someone else’s possessions. Model railroading isn’t alone in this. Sometimes they make me boil inside but I try to shrug them off as being nothing but their opinions, and not facts or even expert opinions. If someone turns his nose up at my little Ford Focus and says I would have been better off buying Brand X I just smile politely and inwardly call him the favourite epithet used by the character Oscar on the TV program “Corner Gas.” If my mechanic, whom I trust implicitly, says the car I bought is no good, now that’s an expert opinion and I’ll listen to it.
I’ve got a sign up on the wall at the end of my layout where it can be seen by everyone walking up to the layout. I think I got it from someone on this forum a long time ago. It says:
MY MODEL RAILROAD RULES
#1. It’s MY railroad in MY little world.
#2. Not everything has to be prototypical or perfect.
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