30 MPH speed restriction on that curve however there is speculation that there may have been an obstruction on the track however.
$800 million expended, and now this on the maiden voyage.
Here is the map of the bypass route, which appears to indicate the curve involved:
I suspect this may turn out to be someone unfamiliar with the route (and, it being so new, would this be a surprise) who lost track of where they were, perhaps a la Bostian distracted by ‘something on the track’, and maintained speed right into the hazard. It is now a little clearer why so many automobiles on I-5 were involved in this; look at the position of the Charger relative to the rest of the train.
Interesting to see what possible excuse there is for PTC not stopping this train; while the “79mph” limit indicates it was not enabled, what possible excuse could there be for not having it ready for the first run of a $800M improvement?
Holy smokes. That sure looks like the sort of wreck layout that would be expected from derailing on that curve. Do they know how fast the train was moving when it derailed? What reason is there for suspecting that the train struck an object on the track?
1969 NP track chart shows 30 MPH limit here and train was approaching switch to the freight main and probably a move through a crossover.
One of the news feeds flew over the train, and it looks to have been overspeed with inital derailment just behind the middle of the train. The speculation about hitting something is just that, and I am 99.9% it will be proved wrong.
FWIW the train had just descended about two miles of slightly less than two percent grade. Bad place to loose situational awareness. Another big “oh $hit” for ATK and egg on the face for WSDOT. Good news is the deraiment is on the new bypass, and freight main is unaffected.
Mac
This was in the story …
The train was going 81.1 mph moments before the derailment, according to transitdocs.com, a website that maps Amtrak train locations and speeds using data from the railroad’s train tracker app.
The maximum speed along the stretch of track, known as Point Defiance Bypass, is 79 mph, according to information about the project posted online by the Washington State Department of Transportation.
So not very official … another story that I saw said PTC was not activated yet.
I wonder: how many times had the crew been over this section of track before this morning so that they would be familiar with it?
This does not look like a 79 mph curve …
From a operating point of view - I would not trust trainsitdocs.com for definative speed information - momemnts before??? how many moments before???
PTC being activated or not does not change speeds that are permitted.
I have no idea of what Amtrak did to familarize employees with the new route.
When VRE’s operator changed from Amtrak to Keolis, the new Keolis employees were making qualifying trips for nearly two months over the territory prior to Keolis assuming the operation. One round trip over the territory, to my mind, does not qualify a engineer.
Full View
Local news apparently contacted an engineer, Robert Bregent, and had a phone interview with him. Here is some of the discussion:
It is nice to see the news report trying to use reliable sources. Wish I agreed with more of what I hear from them, though!
Note that Bregent confirms the speed restriction from an approach board marked T30 (T being “Talgo”).
I would hope that every conductor and engineer who would be operating over this track that was newly opened for passenger service would have made enough trips over it so as to be fully familiar with it. I may be wrong, but I do not think that it would have been necessary to cover the entire Seattle-Portland route, just the new to passenger service portion, complete with its approaches and exits.
Aerial views of the crash site depict derailed UPRIGHT power and cars AND more cars traveling in TWO angled directions, which to me is theoretically impossible. Trains just don’t derail that way, especially the lead locomotive upright off the right-of-way, which suggests to me a device was used to deliberately derail the train, and once the derailing device was destroyed the following cars jackknifed while following the NORMAL route. It should be interesting to hear what the NTSB finds as the probable cause.
Look at 6:45 in Overmods post … is that a signal tower bunched up?
My condolences to the families of this terrible, multiple fatality incident.
Typical politician who redirects blame. Local government bears >90% of the responsibility for bad planning and zoning, thus the lack of grade separations. In addition to better crossing protection, the Mayor and JB Lewis-McChord leaders need to buy a pallet of personal lube to help local drivers pull HOA. BTW there are no grade crossings anywhere this derailment. Now back to topic …
Idiot cable channel reporters are focusing on PTC relevance but AFAIK it is not yet activated. Since Sound Transit now owns and dispatches this line, it is their responsibility to manage PTC activation (not Amtrak or BNSF).
NTSB is on its way so every comment until then is speculation. This ‘bypass’ project refurbished or built new all of the trackage on this new line, but slower curves at either end are not ‘79 mph’ as quoted previously. Amtrak crews had been taking familiarization trips for the last few months, so anticipating the Dupont S-curve & bridge should have been no problem.
Newsmedia and the newsworkers are once again showing how ignorant they can be. Some of their “expert” commentary seems to be coming from someone who rode the train once (maybe). BossHen was seriously laughing at some of the dumber comments on TV (CBS & CNN -Kinda stupid watching them equate transit to freight rail)
DOT 085 839A MP 10.15 BNSF Lakeview Spur -Northwest Region (Lakeview-NisquallyVancouver) Line Segment 401 (Old SB Pacific Hwy) in what had been a 10 MPH low use branch before upgrading with an eight degree curve reversing into a seven degree curve, (There is only sooooo much elevation to get up to 80 mph, so if the pendelum in the Talgo cars were not working right, centripital force and Isaac Newton take over), 1.5% grade northward…passenger speeds would only be good for 20-40 mph with max elevation (Guessing 6" if you keep freight off it to save the low rail). No idea what kind of speed exemption a Talgo pendulum allows. Nobody is gonna put 33 inches of superelevation into a curve for normal passenger operation in order to get 80MPH.
In Northern Pacific’s Heyday, the best it ever was was 30MPH (NP American Lake Line - 17th Sub. built circa 1891)…Don’t think the track was at fault here. Good reason to believe the wannabe’s and bus people at WashDOT are going to be exposed for the rail experts that they never were and Amthrax is also going to get a beatdown in the final analysis.
For the Record: BNSF sold the line to Sound Transit in 2005 (FD-34747 9-28-05) and Tacoma Rail was assigned any freight obligations in 2004b(FD-34555 10-19-04) for what was supposed to be a passenger only operation.
UPDATE: The curve was boarded for 30MPH / passenger & freight. A long overdue “come to jesus” moment is in the offing for all the wannabe and novice railroaders. (This includes the transportation planners and most of the DOT’s (maybe fix FTA while they are at it)…lots of fi
Looks like it to me, and notice the divots adjacent to the ROW, and the way the end tie cribs have been carefully broomed out in a couple of places. Curiouser and curiouser…
And then there is this:“Anarchists Bragged in April about Sabotaging Railroad Tracks to Block Fracking”
linked@https://pjmedia.com/trending/anarchists-bragged-april-sabotaging-railroad-tracks-block-fracking/
Who knows? Something like this will bring out the nutjobs; all seeking a modicum of notice. Terrorism now seems to be the order of the day? PNW seems to have their fair share, even saw an article that was tying ISIS to potential harm up on the Corridor in the NE. It will be up to the experts to assign responsibility.
I can’t speak to specifics or with authority, but people have been posting pictures of the training movies being conducted on this line for at least the last month. Likley longer. I’ve been seeing them on PacNW Yahoo group. So certainly some significant training has been going on. Whether it has been sufficient I will not speculate.