Then only the Swiss do it.
No. SBB timetable for departures from Bern:
As I noted - that was when the railroads ran their own passenger service and such service was a source of pride to them. That’s no longer the case.
I would challenge you to plan a trip across a major metropolitan area by car, during a weekday, planned to the minute for several intermediate points as well as your destination. Odds are you wouldn’t take the challenge because you know it would be virtually impossible, especially if you were to use the surface streets. No detours allowed.
Unless you can arrange for a lights and siren escort, you’re not likely to even come close.
So it is with Amtrak. There was a time when passenger trains got “lights and siren” treatment. That’s not the case today. NYC and PRR both ran passenger-only tracks on their main trunks.
Of course, you can build some padding into your schedule, “just in case,” as Amtrak already does. Still, one traffic accident along the way and your planning is toast.
OK, Schlimm. All the Trains Magazine articles I have read about European schedules, etc. have shown departures at the half minute marks. Either I lie or hallucinate.
Often on our Ridewithmehenry trips on MNRR, NJT, LIRR, Amtrak, and SEPTA we zoom past both moving traffic as well as congested back ups miles long. And even on the subways and light rail we often pass traffic which never seems to catch up. So, yeah, transit is often the quickest way across towns. Where is does slow you down, however, could be when you have to interline, making connections and changing trains and routes. One missed connection can be a short 5 minute wait up to several hours…even to the next day if it’s too dark to read your watch!
I have a good collection of European timetables dating back to the 70s and have spend lots of time on passenger trains in Europe. I have never run across any published departure that included seconds.
Odd minutes, sure, such as 18:37. That happens all the time. And many a time you can watch the second hand move up towards the minute mark and right on the dot the whistle blows, the doors close and the train departs.
I seem to recall an order maybe 10 years ago in Germany that doors would be closed 30 seconds prior to departure time, so that the train could actually roll on the scheduled time.
[sigh] And hand basket production is falling behind as well.
I do not recall what some Trains articles have said. You may or may not remember correctly. What i do know is based on 48 years of extensive riding of passenger trains in Germany, Italy, Austria, Belgium and the UK, most recently this May. And I have shown you a current TT for the SBB from Bern. You could easily look at the schedules of all of those countries for yourself online, if you choose not to take my word or CJtrains. In Germany, printed schedules are becoming much less common, as most folks check and buy tickets online. Additionally, on the Arrival/Departure boards in large stations such as Berlin and on platform signs, the time in seconds is not given. Dwell time is often only 2 minutes at intermediate stations. Is it just possible you are the one who erred?
Ho Hum. Yawn. Think I’ll grab me another beer…
Personal Timetable
(valid from 20.06.2014 to 13.12.2014)
Stralsund Hbf bk Berlin Hbf (tief)
Dep Journey Arr Change Dep Journey Arr Dur. Servicedays
3:23 RE 18323 5:19 Angermunde ¨ 5:33 RE 18343 6:29 3:06 Mo
4:14 RE 18305 7:29 3:15 daily
5:02 RE 18505 8:14 3:12 daily
6:02 RE 13053 7:57 Neustrelitz Hbf 8:01 RE 4355 9:11 3:09 Mo - Sa
6:14 RE 18307 9:29 3:15 daily
7:02 RE 18507 10:11 3:09 daily
7:27 IC 2217 x 8:15 Rostock Hbf 8:34 RE 4357 11:11 3:44 Sa, Su pa
8:02 RE 13205 9:57 Neustrelitz Hbf 10:01 RE 4357 11:11 3:09 Mo - Sa
8:14 RE 18309 11:29 3:15 daily
9:02 RE 18509 12:14 3:12 daily
9:18 IC 2356 x 12:04 2:46 not every day ps
9:27 IC 2089 x 10:19 Rostock Hbf 10:34 RE 4359 13:11 3:44 not every day pd
9:36 IC 2356 x 12:21 2:45 daily pf
10:02 RE 13055 11:57 Neustrelitz Hbf 12:01 RE 4359 13:11 3:09 Mo - Sa
10:14 RE 18311 13:29 3:15 daily
11:02 RE 18511 14:11 3:09 daily
11:40 EC 379 y 14:26 2:46 daily pg
12:02 RE 13209 13:57 Neustrelitz Hbf 14:01 RE 4361 15:13 3:11 Mo - Sa
12:14 RE 18313 15:29 3:15 daily
13:02 RE 18513 16:14 3:12 daily
13:25 IC 2377 x 14:19 Rostock Hbf 14:33 EC 179 y 16:34 3:09 not every day ph
13:25 IC 2287 x 14:19 Rostock Hbf 14:33 X 68904 g 16:58 3:33 not every day pd
13:25 IC 2377 x 14:19 Rostock Hbf 14:33 X 68904 g 16:58 3:33 not every day pj
14:02 RE 13057 15:57 Neustrelitz Hbf 16:01 RE 4363 17:14 3:12 daily
14:14 RE 18315 17:30 3:16 daily
15:02 RE 18515 18:13 3:11 daily
15:27 IC 2289 x 16:19 Rostock Hbf 16:34 RE 4365 19:12 3:45 not every day pd
15:27 IC 2379 x 16:19 Rostock Hbf 16:34 RE 4365 19:12 3:45 not every day pk
16:02 RE 13211 17:57 Neustrelitz Hbf 18:01 RE 4365 19:12 3:10 Mo - Fr, Su
16:14 RE 18317 19:30 3:16 daily
17:02 RE 18517 20:14 3:12 daily
17:27 IC 1989 18:19 Rostock Hbf 18:31 RE 18591 20:49 3:22 Su
18:02 RE 13059 19:57 Neustrelitz Hbf 20:01 RE 4367 21:11 3:09 Mo - Fr, Su
18:23 RE 18319 21:28
Engineering News and American Contract Journal, August 19, 1882
Every railroad issues two time tables whenever the running time of trains is changed – one table for the public and one for the guidance of engineers and trainmen. The main difference between the two is that the schedule for the employes contains the time of every train at every station on its route, whereas the schedule for the public gives the time at places where the trains stop. Dots and daggers and letters alongside of the time figures explain to the engineer and conductor at what points and why he is to stop. The absence of these show that the train is not to stop at all. There is naturally nothing about the conduct of a railroad on which more time and care are spent than these time tables, and the growth of railroading between the period not many years ago, when the Philadelphia Express was held at Newark or elsewhere for some regular passenger who had been belated, and the present time, when trains that run distances of 500 miles can be relied on at any point on their route to be on schedule time, is shown most clearly in the equal growth of the time table. The half minute appears for the first time in the schedule about to be issued for New York Division of the Pennsylvania Railroad. Minutes had been fine enough divisions of time before. It is explained that the half minute has forced itself into recognition. Modern railroading is so fast, stations have grown so close together, and the movement of trains has become so regular, that this fine division of time not only can but has to be made. Nothing greater than half a minute
But even so, the times given for the Pennsy are only given on the minute.
Employee Timetables in the US show same schedules as public timetables except in Penn Station and GCT both in NY where public schedules leaving the terminals are a minute earlier than employee table shows. Additional times shown in employee schedules are at interlocking stations, control points, block stations, block limit station, etc, and will indicate whether or not it is a stop or not. Today, too, both public and employee schedules may indicate that a train may leave a station stop before the scheduled time. This is usually during peak or rush hours when there usually are no passengers to be picked up and frequency of trains is short. Today, too, employee timetables do not have schedules of train but all the other information employee timetables used to have; a special employee schedule is published when schedules change and is a cheaper practice than having to publish the extra pages for rules, instructions, and fixed plant locations and speeds.
Here is an Amtrak/Freight Railroad question that hopefully one of the professional railroad participants can answer.
This afternoon I drove over to Granger, TX, to watch Number 21 go through. It is due to stop at Taylor, TX at 5:36 p.m., so it usually goes through Granger about 5:10 to 5:15 p.m. Today it was 1.5 hours late and did not arrive at Taylor until 7:03 p.m.
When I got to Granger I saw a northbound UP freight train waiting on the siding. The conductor told me that the train had taken the siding at approximately 4:30 p.m. Given that Number 21 was 1.5 hours late, that means that the freight train was not able to get underway until approximately 6:45 p.m. In other words, it sat in the hole for more than two hours.
The freight had three locomotives, i.e. a contract GP 50 - I think, a UP SD70M, and what appeared to be an CN AC4400. I am the first to admit that I am not a diesel locomotive watcher, but these are close. They were idling for more than two hours. How much fuel would they have consumed during that period? And will Amtrak reimburse them for the cost of the wasted fuel?
No.
Figure around 6 gallons of fuel per unit per hour at idle.
The original poster might find some interesting reading if he were able to access an Employees Timetable or two from the days when the railroads were the dominant mode for all freight traffic – really not all tat long ago.
Until the widespread adaptation of Centralized Traffic Control (CTC), the railroads scheduled freight as well as passenger trains, and the meeting points and times were designated and usually called attention to by printing in bold type, The inferior freight moves had the responsibility never to pass those points (or to keep themselves out of the way if they fell behind schedule and a superior train was approaching (and more likely to be on time due to its higher priority).
This system could then be over-ruled by written orders. but things could easily get out of hand if unforeseen events, such as mechanical problems or severe weather disrupted plans.
The arrangement was further complicated by technological advances, particularly Dieselization. Freights in the steam era were usually limited to the 75-or-so cars a “late-model” steam loco could handle, so “second sections” were more common, and passing sidings limited to a similar capacity. The development of “multiple unit” controls gave the freight roads a stronger incentive for longer trains so, even if a freight arrived early for a meet with a much-shorter passenger move, it would occupy a much of the siding as possible, let the passenger run “hold the main”, then pull ahead until the opposite switch was clear.
In rare instances, two freights would both be too long for the passing track, but the meet could still be accomplished by breaking one train into tow halves and working them through the siding one at a time (a process sometimes called a “saw-by”), This was still being regularly practiced on BNSF’s line between Lincoln, NE and Sioux City, IA, with the meet usually set at Oakland, NE, when I worked in the area c.2000.
Finally, i
On my carrier, if the wait is KNOWN to be over 30 minutes, one engine is to be left running to supply air to the train. The others are to be shut down for fuel conservation. Crew is to ask the Dispatcher for a figure on the arrival of the clearing train for the meet so that the shut down engines can be restarted so the train can depart upon the arrival of the clearing train. The Weed Weaseals do efficiency tests on this.
Thanks to everyone for your helpful responses.
I was in Granger for approximately an hour and a half. I was close to the engines, and none of them were shutdown. It may have been due to the fact that the UP dispatcher did not know when Amtrak would show.
I called Julie, Amtrak’s automated train status site, amongst others, for an update on Number 21. At first it was 19 minutes late, then it was 35 minutes late, then it was 55 minutes late, and finally it was more than an hour late. If the UP dispatcher had to deal with the changing meet times for Number 21, he would have had a difficult time, I presume, in telling the freight train crew when they could expect a clearance.
After an hour and a half, I gave it up and retreated to my favorite Mexican restaurant in Taylor for a pint and some good TexMex.
My carrier is NOT UP. I have no idea what UP’s rules are regarding this happening.