I have question about amtrak? What is the goverment going to do with amtrak futuer?
An that’s the $64,000,000 question. Stay tunned.[;)]
This is going to get very ugly I’m thinking Amtrak’s future is very dim.
I keep telling ya…nothing will happen till after the mid-term elections, then watch out!
At least get rid of the long distance trains. It seems they are no more than a burden on the taxpayer. If the states want to foot the bill to continue ops, let 'em have it.
Bush wants another 125 Billion for the War and we spent 281Billion on War now, aid to these other Countrys needs to Stop, WE give away 80 to 100 Billion in aid every year for Overseas Countrys. Why can’t we spend all these Billion on the Good USA not these other People Overseas??
…That really is a serious question…and the 120 billion is off budget too…! Other countries are spending their money on development of various parts of their culture, etc…as they know Uncle Sam will police the world…Someday this assumption must change and if the world needs policing the whole world will have to help do it AND pay for it…If we continue on the path we’re going we’re heading for bust…!
I sure would rather have my tax dollars “wasted” on Amtrak than on some of the other dubious endeavors that the government is involved in…
Actually this is a very serious question.
If the “states” take over,they are going to ask the “federal Gov.”
for more help (i.e. money),so are we not back to “Square One ?!”
I’ll re-post here what I posted in another thread, and summarize it for everyone: You need the long distance trains as place holders for several of the routes, and, it is the short distance trains, specifically the New York - DC corridor, which are the financial poor performers on the network.
Let’s examine the numbers: See here: http://www.unitedrail.org/pubs/longdistance/index.htm
Let’s also look at some more numbers: “Follow the money” is the mantra of many who are trying to get to the bottom of why some people and/or companies behave in a certain way. Amtrak is no exception to this rule. Below is a brief chart of Amtrak statistics from Fiscal Year 2004, the last complete year of information posted on the Amtrak web site (It’s too early for figures from FY 2005, which just ended at the end of September, 2005). Take a look at the figures, and follow below for analysis.
State Ridership Expenditures Employment Payroll Notes
Alabama 48,466 $11,477,849 24 $1,224,391
Arizona 76,424 $952,736 36 $1,561,816
Arkansas 23,814 $199,260 32 $1,802,173
California 9,332,501 $29,649,815 3,589 $154,921,344 [1]
Colorado 200,693 $18,998,202 94 $5,558,480
Connecticut 1,392,393 $9,963,185 636 $34,428,828
Delaware 753,055 $5,109,985 1,173 $53,053,041 [2]
Florida 913,553 $13,689,114 990 $43,924,411
Georgia 142,965 $8,402,900 83 $3,943,655
Idaho 4,932 $51,537 3 $162,802
Illinois 3,065,680 $56,759,840 2,016 $83,493,489
Indiana 102,754 $19,762,401 1,036 $41,356,652 [3]
Iowa 54,365 $180,321 13 $572,091
Kansas 31,549 $15,639,008 26 $1,213,867
Kentucky 6,740 $6,428,567 6 $296,870
Louisiana 180,475 $4,256,976 363 $14,212,305
Maine 161,469 $972,711 24 $1,186,968
Maryland 1,779,141 $22,142,799 2,609 $126,689,216
Massachusetts 1,962,324 $13,837,498 1,477 $41,904,152
Michigan 604,721 $2,858,461 133 $6,434,967 [4]
Minnesota 172,177 $4,325,291 72 $3,768,858
Mississip
Here’s some more thoughts upon which to ruminate:
MYTH: The longer distance services are “lightly used.”
REALITY: The load factors on these trains are double the load factors of the short corridors, in California and the Northeast alike. The aggregate ridership, for example, of the few long distance trains that serve Chicago exceeds the ridership of all of the short corridor trains that serve Chicago. Much more importantly, the output of those long distance trains, measured by revenue passenger miles, exceeds the output of the Chicago-hub corridor trains by a factor of about 700%. In California, the output and revenue of the one long distance train operated by Amtrak West, the Coast Starlight, substantially exceeds the output and revenues of ALL of the Pacific Surfliners between San Diego and San Luis Obispo.
So, one can hardly characterize the long hauls as “lightly used.” In fact, the greatest single shortcoming of the inter-regional trains today is that their capacity has declined steadily over the last decade due to management neglect (bordering on overt hostility) such that their ability to accommodate latent demand has declined as well.
MYTH: Rail’s appeal is in the 300 mile corridors, and this is where new development should be concentrated.
REALITY: The average trip length on the western long hauls already exceeds 800 miles. And rail’s aggregate market share for intercity passenger trips is the absolute lowest in the 200 to 300 mile markets but highest in the 800 to 1000 mile distances. What rational investor would undertake to invest billions of dollars in new capital into an enterprise’s weakest segment?
MYTH: Short corridors offer the biggest return on our infrastructure funds.
REALITY: In addition to mere dollars, we must take opportunity costs into account. One thing we certainly have learned by now is that high speed or low speed corridor development projects such as what we see in the Northeast Corridor (NE
“Nope”…
The fallacy of this statement is an implicit assumption that the majority (or only) passengers on the long-distance trains are on for the full trip, e.g. Chicago to Seattle. The reality seems to be that a good number of passengers get on at one intermediate stop and off at another 300-400 miles away, or go from one terminus to an intermediate stop, etc.
I would favor cutting off all subsidies to Amtrack if the government would also eliminate all explicit and implicit subsidies to airlines, general aviation, trucks, private cars, etc. What trips my trigger is the rank hypocracy of the folks who want subsidies for the modes of travel that they don’t use cut, but demand that the subsidies for the modes that they do use be continued. Let’s have some consistency here.
As of last fall, Amtrak was LOSING a couple of hundred dollars per pax on several of it’s long distance trains. And I completely agree with eliminating government subsidies to any organization that have consistenlty lost money for several years.
You mean organizations like the Army Corp. of Engr? TVA? Nat’l Parks? FAA? Coast Guard? All of these have costs much higher than revenue, too.
That Amtrak loses money is a bad litmus test. The question is “what do we get for our tax dollar?” If the answer to that is “not enough”, then is Amtrak fixable or hopeless?
I was mistaken by using the term organization, but should have used corporation. It is definately not the goal of th
Then perhaps what should happen is to make the National Rail Passenger Corporation (aka Amtrak) into a non-profit public service entity. If you were to read earlier posts, you would see through the misconceptions that many of the anti-Amtrak folks have. I even included the above posts in this thread so that you could read some of the reasons why short distance trains are no good unless they are a part of an overall, comprehensive, interconnected transport system. They won’t make money, but, then again, neither do the airports or any of the Interstate highways. As for getting the States involved, what would you think if one state wanted to have an Interstate grade highway while its neighboring state didn’t? Do you suppose the highway might not work? Its the same with trains. If you think that states are going to share the burdens with their neighboring states, you’re mistaken, because they don’t.
To sum it up, the federal government has to get involved because so many of these routes and corridors have to cross state lines in order to connect and be successful.
Seems to me, What ought to take place is to divide Amtrak into two seperate entities,
One, specifically, orgainzed around the commuter operations wherever they are, and then another entitity that would be responsible for the operation of the city pair side of the operation: NYCNY-LACA, and CHICIL-NOLA, for a couple of examples. That side of the operation would be on a different type business plan yhan the commuter side… Incorporate both entities as publically owned utilities rather than a for profit business model.
Amtrak will have a future, when the Feds arrive at , what I see is the only way to keep Amtrak going. Bring in the major cariers (BNSF,CN,CP,CSX, NS and UP) as “partners” with the feds. Really, this has to happen, since I think the majors no longer need “protection from passenger losses”! The Federal taxes they pay should be directed to Amtrak, as an “investment”. Then, as I have advocated before, Amtrak will be taken seriously by the big six (minus KCS, which has no Amtrak trains on its lines) as it will be a vested interest asset. What? Amtrak an asset? Sure, why not, Their Federal tax dollars would go toward Amtrak, as a full partner with the feds. You fellow bloggers here might not be aware of how much the “Big Six” shell out in taxes and fees to the Federal government. With PRIVATE funds ultimately making up the “losses”, there would no need for congress to fight over Amtrak like another piece of pork, handed out to the friends of the administration or powerful members of Congress that haven’t been caught yet! Wake up Congress and the administration. If they want to kill Amtrak, let’s smoke 'em out and make them show their hands. AND if the big six want to kill Amtrak then, let them deal with the consequences in the arena of ideas! I am Peter M. Benham and I approve this blog!
A lot more people travel the highway and fly than ride Amtrak. Amtrak has had 30+ years to become successful, and has failed to do so. Also, airports and highways are critical for national and international commerce, not Amtrak.