According to the TRAINS Newswire for 9-22-05, one Amtrak proposal being considered is for allowing private operators to bid for some passenger routes. Although no real specifics were brought forth, the question is if this allowance for private operators would be strictly on Amtrak owned lines (NEC) or if private rail passenger operators would be allowed Amtrak’s right of passage over Class I rails?
hmmm… me thinks they stole my idea!!
If nothing else, this will help prove that there’s no such thing as a profitable rail passenger service.
Of course, right now it seems like there’s no such thing as a profitable airline either.
With the price of fuel, there is no such thing as profitable transportation, regardless of mode. From a fuel perspective, at least trains do better economically. If airlines charged for tickets what they needed to be profitable, we would die from sticker shock. The real question is, if they did, would people stop flying?
The NEC which appears to be profitable, has a huge hidden cost in the form of infrastructure maintenance. Is it still really profitable with that expense figured in?
I kind of doubt that there will be too many offers from private companies to jump in to the rail passenger business. Why would they, when the government has been dying to get out for years?
More info on the “other” thread and at http://www.house.gov/transportation/
Whatever happens-ain’t gonna be tomorrow.
To differentiate this thread from SchemerBob’s NEC-focused thread, what I got from the TRAINS newswire story is that “some or all” of Amtrak’s routes would be considered for privatization, not just the NEC and it’s routes.
Here’s the entire Newswire byline with certain items in bold for emphasis:
Amtrak says private companies could bid for routes
WASHINGTON - Some Amtrak routes should be offered to the private sector to help salvage the debt-ridden national passenger rail system, Amtrak’s chairman said on Wednesday, according to a story from Reuters.
“We will consider every conceivable solution to make it work. We’re committed to hold the system together at acceptable cost,” David Laney told a hearing of the House of Representatives railroads subcommittee.
The hearing revealed what one senior federal transportation official said was a shift this summer in the debate over Amtrak’s future. Lawmakers have begun to move away from criticizing or defending the railroad’s finances and performance to exploring options for passenger service to continue.
Blueprints that would provide long-term funding to support operations and improve antiquated track, signals, bridges and tunnels — all in the Northeast where Amtrak owns most of the Boston-New York-Washington trackage and infrastructure — have received bipartisan support from House and Senate lawmakers with influence over transportation matters.
Congressional funding proposals for 2006 include federal subsidies of between $1.2 billion and $1.4 billion. Amtrak received just over $1.2 billion this fiscal year, which ends on Sept. 30.
The Bush administration opposes any subsidy until its reform agenda is met. This could range from deep cost cuts to dismant
Cool. I’m in. Where do I get my check. I’ll only ask for $1.8Billion a year plus a few fringes…
I don’t have any real passenger rail experience, but I was an assistant City Manager, or was that an intern. I gave lots of ca***o the Bush Campaign though…
Can I have the job???
Mikey Brown
And I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express! That should qualify me too!
BK
Amtrak actually put forth that idea to congress last April. At the hearing this week, a newly formed company proposed that they be allowed to run a pilot program using one Amtrak route. The company said they have $23 million in equity and can borrow another $100 million. They would borrow equipment from Amtrak as necessary until the equipment they would purchase is delivered.
There were some other ideas proposed by outsiders, but there was nothing that would eliminate the need for government grants.
If two class-one railroads bought Conrail (former goverment project), then why not consider a class-one railroad getting back into the passenger business?? Which one? My first two guesses would be BNSF & NS.
Laugh, and then laugh some more, at that thought. Why did railroads drop passenger service in the late 1960’s and why was Amtrak created in the first place? Flash back to the mid 1960’s and the simple answer is: the car, the plane and interstate highway. The plane was realativly new and fast. The passenger train was old and slow. The interstate highway system was also realativly new and gave Americans freedom-they could make there own schedule. Fast forward to 2005. Raise your hand if you think airport security is fun. (YES! Please do a strip search… it’s so much fun!) Freedom of the open road is only freedom IF you can find an open road! And paying for gas these days is like being kicked in the nuts every time you have to fill up.
If Amtrak could get it’s head out of George Bush’s [(*CENSORED for my FBI file) “dairy-aire”] (censor that!) long enough to see the light, they might realize that this country might just like traveling by train if only America knew that travel by rail was still possible in this country. The class-one railroads have the money to support passenger train service that will never be a money maker. Would the goverment provide support? Would the class-one railroads even consider it???
CC
You might find a class one RR willing to operate passenger trains FOR A FEE that would cover their costs PLUS return a fair profit, but that’s about it. (NS and BSNF operate commuter trains on this basis)
Amtrak’s LD trains are really no different than those of the 50s and 60s that the Class ones desparately wanted to get rid of (hence, Amtrak in 1971). Highway congestion is really not a huge problem for intercity travel (commuting is a pain, though) and unlik
I realize that my basic mistrust for anything “government” is Probably preying upon my sensibilities here, but this smells of “subterfuge”
By allowing private entities to cherry pick the amtrak routes that look profit worthy, the result will be Amtrak will have left only the bum routes, with a horrendous balance sheet,… and then the emotional issue of killing off what remains will look to be more of a no brainer.
Here is my “screwey louie” prediction: By sifting out the few profitable routes from Amtrak, the gutted hull left behind becomes a huge fiscal eyesore, that becomes expendable.
With the Federal gov’t no longer in the railroad business, the ability to justify actively operating the Northeast corridor becomes purposefully confused, and is leased to GWB’s big buxx cronies, at a firesale price.
They start a “transportation” company that will never own nor operate a train…instead they sublease the physical plant (at a hefty profit) to a succession of failing commuter rail companies, that will live only long enough to burn up whatever grant finding milked out of the states and federal “seed money” programs that they can get their hands on…with the only profit being made by the middle men operating as sublessors
I must be missing something. Who is going to bid on a money loosing franchise? What’s the incentive? Is the gov. going to pay the company to run the trains? How is that going to save any money?
…If…and only if…a major RR would take on the business of running what is now Amtrak…and with an agreement with our government, and run the passenger railroad which they could do better than a patch work of “priviate operators”…and be guaranteed a set profit to do so via that government making up above what the fare box takes in…perhaps would get the job done better than it is now or with a hodge podge of operators being suggested. Incentives would have to be built in the process so it would be a tried and true effort by that said RR contractor. Perhaps all this would make a much better system and run more economical by “railroaders” and cheaper than is being done now…
I think you are overlooking the strong possibility of cherry picking the choice routes, leaving the gov’t as custodian of the big losers.
Railroad operating costs to the government tend to ignore what is called “Cost Avoidance”. Thes are the costs that would be incurred if you didn’t spend the money to have a system. In the NEC’s case, along with other metropolitan areas, no amount of money could be spent to upgrade the roadway systems to handle the resultant rush hour traffic increases that would result if Amtrak and the Commutor railroads ceased to exist… Add to this the costs to individual commutors (a.k.a. taxpayers) in terms of personal expense, longer travel times, and stress of sitting in rush hour traffic.
In Response to LimitedClear’s request for a federal job, didn’t you recently resign as the Head of FEMA?
Yup. The benefits don’t accrue to the one with the direct cost. Amtrak doesn’t get any portion of the money not spent (saved) on adding highway capacity. It’s the big hole in the arguement of all those “free markets rule” idealogues.
More likely they are reading White House and DOT press releases.
FM, you must really get high on your own swill…LOL…
LC
Bergie, flag this. This is usually where these threads turn sour, when LC starts to opine his pointless vitriol. Up to this point, this thread was going rather well, I thought.
What you are both missing is the possibility that some of those money losing routes (okay, they’re all pretty much money losing routes, but I mean the real rolling sinkholes!) could be transformed into viable private routes with the right entreprenuerial application, and if those routes can asthetically qualify as tourism routes. There have been several neo-successful private tour operations over some ex-Amtrak routes (aka the Montana Rockies tour operation), yet those same operations have been forced to cease operations due to an inability to get access rights (at a decent price) into the major metorpolitan terminals. If Amtrak’s right of passage could be transfered to these tour operators, then their whole cost structure changes for the better.
Let’s all face the facts: LD trains are best operated as tour trains. Lord knows they can’t hack it as viable commuter services. Why not privatize and transform these Amtrak LD’s into tour operations?