As opposed to the Empire Builder over BNSF’s high line? Not much in the way of Metropoli up that way either! Nor is there any state help from Montana or ND.
In fact, I’d venture that an Amtrak route over the DM&E would serve a greater total population than does the EB west of the Twin Cities.
I think its a good idea to have Amtrak come to South Dakota and Wyoming. We don’t have anything else around here. And with the PRB booming and the economy in the state that it is in, why not. Spend, Spend, Spend! I’d bet Amtrak would get more than what they figure out of it. Alot of the miners would go on there 7 days off, and possibly jump on a train to go somewhere instead of driving forever and a day to get somewhere. I would. It would be cheaper for alot of us who own diesels to catch a train and go to places than it would to drive.
So… BUDD RDC CARS or autoracks from Wyoming to Minnioppolis?
Sure. Why not?
Here we go again. It doesn’t run through Almighty Sioux Falls, so it won’t work.
Brookings is 45 minutes north of Sioux Falls. Perhaps some brave souls will leave the cocoon of Sioux Falls and venture out into the savage wilderness that comprises the rest of South Dakota and get on the train. It beats the 3 hour drive to Omaha.
[(-D] You’re killin’ me. I grew up in Rapid City, and yet I’m still amazed how everyone out west of the river thinks everybody who lives in Sioux Falls is darned near a member of the east coast/ Boston High Society.[:P]
Back to the subject of this thread: A number of years ago, I wrote to the late Governor George Michaelson(sp?), with my thoughts that S.D. should have an Amtrak route to the Black Hills. He wrote back(!); explaining that in essence, there would never be enough ridership on the route to justify the expense of upgrading the line for Amtrak service. I think that holds true today, and in the future.
Not for UPGRADING the tracks, but the tracks will ALREADY be upgraded by CP/DM & E. Isn’t 50 MPH fast enough?
By the way, I don’t live west of the river, I live near Huron. For all of my 51 years I have listened to the Sioux Falls media look down on the rest of the state like New York City and the West Coast look down on the rest of the country. Recently, one of their political/business leaders proclaimed “What’s good for Sioux Falls is good for South Dakota!”. For you out-of-staters who don’t know the geography, Sioux Falls is 20 miles from the Minnesota border. There are people in western South Dakota who live 600 miles from Sioux Falls. Anyone who lives more than an hour anyway does not “benefit” from anything that goes on down there.
They seem to think that the rest of the state should be abandoned so we ALL can live in Sioux Falls.
ButchKnouse: I knew you lived near Huron, I was just using west river to make a point. It seems that the further west you go, the greater the anit-eastern sentiment. Might note, that the fella who put his foot in his mouth- Dan Scott, seems to be seeking early retirement. Maybe Sioux Falls has become to S.D. what Minneapolis has become to MN, and Chicago has become to IL? 'Not saying it’s right. By the way, if I moved 600 miles west of Sioux Falls, I’d be in the Bighorn Mountains of Wyoming.[;)]
I see your point about the track costs. If CP does all the heavy spending to upgrade the track, doesn’t it still require an investment in more signal equipment, to be Amtrak friendly? In the end, I don’t think that’s the issue though. The Milwaukee Road line through Aberdeen is already in that condition, and about once a decade, they run an Amtrak test train over it, as a sop to some politician or other.
Six hundred miles may have been a slight exaggeration, but my new SD map says it’s 484 miles from Sioux Falls to Buffalo. How does the big boom in Sioux Falls help anyone trying to scrounge out in living in Harding County?
Or ANYPLACE in South Dakota not within commuting distance of Sioux Falls?
I have relatives in Buffalo. How do you know I’m not sending money back to the old country[;)] For the record, I’m not disagreeing with you. Are you overlooking the mini-boom things going on in Rapid City,Brookings,Aberdeen, and a few other places?
The sad truth is, if (BIG if ) S.D. ever is to have Amtrak, it would probably run on the Milwaukee Line up north. Ironically, my relatives in Buffalo would have easier access to it than I would. When I wrote the Governor, I had envisioned an Amtrak route on the state owned lines, routed: Sioux City, Mitchell,Chamberlain, Badlands, Rapid City. A realistic Amtrak route into the state would be on DM&E; coming up from the south, by way of Edgemont
Butch, I share your apathy for all things having to do with Sioux Falls. Nevertheless, just as Dillinger robbed banks because “that’s where the money is”, a passenger railroad is well advised to go where the potential passengers are! In the case of our state, that means Sioux Falls.
In a way the title of this thread sort of led us astray. Somehow, we are assuming recreating the route of the Dakota 400 is the most desirable choice for service within the state. I don’t think that is the case. To me, it would make much more sense to start at the Twin Cities, run the BNSF to Sioux Falls, then to Mitchell, and join the DM&E just west of Huron.
However, the whole discussion is moot. As was noted above, we are not a wealthy state; nor are we willing to impose the level of taxes some other states do. Since Amtrak is mandated to obtain state/local financial participation for new routes, rail service for the state just isn’t going to happen.
Just for the sake of discussion, how good are the tracks along your proposed route? I do know the trains on the BNSF Mitchell to Aberdeen line aren’t screaming by at 50 MPH like the DM & E trains west of Wolsey on the jointed rail.
By the way, in the last year there’s been quite of bit of improvement at the Wolsey interchange. They’ve built another turnout on the SW side of the diamond, complete with a concrete crossing on the county asphalt that it crosses. And there are TWO very long sidings on the north side of the main line west of the diamond. Both RRs must be planning more interchange traffic there.
And DM & E is building a new turnout on the NE corner of the diamond at Huron (originally C & NW and Great Northern now all DM & E). This will be for servicing the Wheat Growers facility at Yale. The old turnout on the SE side would be impractical, as it would mean driving down to the end of the old GN line and then backing into the yard.
Nice to see rails being put DOWN around here, rather being pulled UP.
I’d say the line in question, is just OK from Sioux City to Mitchell, poor from Mitchell to Chamberlain, bad from Chamberlain to Kadoka, and gone(!) from Kadoka to Rapid City. The reason I thought of that line, was because at the time, it was state owned.
I recall reading an article somewhere about the Dakota & Iowa, and parent company L.G. Everest (Quarry), providing a lot of ballast and rock for that project by Wolsey. It lead me to believe that the rock was hauled in D&I cars, by D&I power over BNSF and DM&E.
Murphy, you are taking a wrong turn at Mitchell. You are thinking of the line west to Chamberlain, what I was trying to describe was the line north from Mitchell to Wolsey (just west of Huron).
I don’t know the condition of the Mitchell (MP 650.0) to Wolsey (MP 704.8) section. South of there on the Mitchell to Sioux City secton, shortly after the BNSF bought it from the state (6 years ago?), they ripped out the existing stick rail, rebalasted, and put in CWR on new ties. Since then, they have added at least one new siding – perhaps 8000’. As it is prairie and river bottom country, there are no tight curves. The BNSF runs their 100+ car grain trains at speed, as does the D&I with their rock trains. Other than being dark territory, it appears to be as good single line as exists.
Obviously I misspoke, west of Wolsey to east edge of Pierre is welded rail. As far as the Sioux City to Mitchell, what is the speed?
As far as I know, the right of way from Kadoka to Rapid City legally still exists, but the last train was a Milwaukee Road. In many places the rails have been fenced over and in some cases stolen from the roadbed. I saw some talk in the Rapid City Journal last month about using this as a bike trail, RC to Kadoka. They ARE building a trail on it from RC to Caputa, the first town east of RC.
In the article it was said they were trying to decide if they could use the old railroad bridge over the Bad River or not, because the bridge is leaning and they weren’t sure if it was safe for bicycles or not.
Doesn’t sound like much of a candidate for an Amtrak route. It would be cheaper to use the DM & E after the rebuild and build a large parking lot at a Brookings Amtrak station to accomadate the Sioux Falls customers. (If half the state can park at their airport and fly out, they can drive 45 minutes up I-29 to the Amtrak.)
I grew up between RC and Caputa.[:)] The rails stop around Farmindale to the east. This line will never reopen west of Kadoka, as the new Heartland highway cuts the line just east of RC. That. and it hasn’t seen a train since maybe 1980.
When I wrote the Governor about Amtrak, about 15 or so years ago, neither the DM&E line, or the former Milwaukee Road line were in good shape. My thought was, that the state owned the southern line, making it easier to move forward; and that tourists on the way to the Black Hills would want to see the Badlands and the world’s only Corn palace! [;)]
What about a Sioux Falls to Mply/St. Paul route? There is tons of traffic up to Mpls from Sioux Falls both car and bus charters. People go up there for shopping, football games and business. With gas going up it might be enough of a ridership. But honestly I don’t know enough about the existing rail lines to know if this is even possible. BTW, the Twin Cities light rail is supposedly adding a University Ave. light rail line that will run right by the St. Paul Amtrak station. Light rail also goes to downtown, the airport and the Mall of America.
Another option would be to run something between Fargo & Omaha with stops in Brookings, Sioux Falls, Vermillion area and Sioux City. Again, I don’t know how that coordinates with existing rail lines but it would give access to two major Amtrak routes that go pretty far in either direction east and west.
The lack of the ability to get anywhere out of SD without tons of driving or crazy expensive air fare is starting to be part of our decision to look at moving somewhere more connected to the rest of the country.
When the NARP issued its dream rail map for 20?? it did include Sioux Falls. It was an interesting route:
Kansas City thru St. Joe to Omaha on the BNSF,
Omaha to Sioux City on the UP
Sioux City to Elk Point on the BNSF
Elk Point to Canton on track owned by the state, operated by the D&I
Canton thru Sioux Falls to the Twin Cities on the BNSF
Some of that is dark territory, and without having seen it recently, I would guess it is not capable of taking a passenger train at any speed. I’m not looking for it to happen in the near future. Perhaps a Sioux Falls/Twin City shuttle is more practical.
I found that after I posted. I know the line between SF and Canton has still be being used for grain hauling as late as six months ago. The city (Sioux Falls) is working on some deal to remove the freight rails from downtown because they run through an area they are doing urban renewal on. The plan is to reroute those lines to run around the outside of town rather than through it.
DM&E was hinting about passenger rail to the media a while back but as others have said, ridership when you get into certain areas could be a major drawback since there are so few people living there. I have to say, taking a train rather than trying to drive some of our roads in the winter would be a major plus.
Actually, the line form Sioux Falls to Sioux City is used daily by Dakota & Iowa Railroad, to haul rock from Dell Rapids, S.D. From Canton to Elk Point(?), it’s D&I owned, and I belive it has some slow spots.
As far as a line from Sioux Falls nort, there are no tracks that follow that general heading.
The City of Sioux Falls is trying to move the trainyards out of downtown. The BNSF mainline would not be moved. The whole thing hinges on getting a $50 million grant from Uncle Sam
SDneedsrail: Where are you located?