I’ve been wondering for a while now how fast the speeds are for most Amtrak trains. Do the speeds differ between the summer and the winter? Do average speeds change across the country?
Lots of thanks to anybody that knows anything, and sorry if there is another post about the same topic, I can’t find any.
Outside the Northeast corridor, most Amtrak trains run 79 MPH where track conditions and such permit. It’s not always possible. The NEC has some 150 MPH track, some 110 MPH track and some 79MPH track.
Under FRA signal rules, 79 mph is the fastest a passenger train can legally run on signalized track, unless the signal system has additional features such as “Automatic Train Stop” (ATS) or “Automatic Train Control” (ATC). This speed restriction would be applicable to most of the track Amtrak uses outside of the NEC. There’s a string called “ICC and speed” (or something like that) in the General Discussion Forum that has more information
Speed may well increase above on some routes as PTC in implemented and track is upgraded to class 5 or class 6. However I do not see that really happening until 2012 or even later. Right now it is much more important to eliminate slow orders because a 1 mile slow order to 60 requires 4 miles or more of 90 MPH track and a 1 mile slow order to 30 requires 12+ miles to make up the lost time.
I was recently told that Amtrak likes to seek a minimum allowable maximum speed of 65mph.
The whole NEC is equipped with cab siganlling, so no 79 mph track - it would be 80 mph. Also, there’s a lot of 125/135 mph on the south end.
By an Amtrak employee? Amtrak might want to reduce speed to save fuel when ahead of schedule. I have no idea if they are doing this or not, but there’s been no reduction in max authorized speeds anywhere that I know of.
I was told by a former UP engineer who worked out of Mineola that when the temperature tops 100 degrees for days on end, as it does frequently in Texas during the summer, the UP will require Amtrak to slow down to 60 or 65 mph. This was a decade ago, and it may not be true today.
Perhaps someone else in Texas with operating experience can confirm or refute this information.
Actually it was. It was in reference in looking at new routes for passenger service.
Oh, as a minimum for new routes. That makes sense. That keeps everything on decent, signalled track and on routes where grades and curves give you a fighting chance at a reasonable trip time.
Do the math yourself. Start with the system tinetable and pocket calculator or enter the distance and times on a computer spreadsheet.
I don’t know if Amtrak publishes information on late or annulled trains to get a more realistic picture of reliability.
If you’re looking for possible new routes, you need 1) some idea (a model) for ridership based on populations served, special travel generators (colleges, tourist destinations, etc), and distances to ascertain potential viability (acceptable subsidy) of revenue to cost; and 2) track charts showing curvature and resulting speed limitations to estimate time for various cost scenarios for track, signalling, and equipment enhancements.
For viability, you may take a look at California, Illinois, Empire, Keystone and Carolina services for populations served, travel time, and ridership and compare that to a corridor of interest. The NEC is complicated by road congestion and parking and toll costs. Most models I’ve seen were proprietary - this is how consultants make money and holds true for Amtrak as well - so I doubt if there would be publications available.
Railroad lines were built at under varying circumstances that significantly affected the engineering. Builders understood that curves and grades were to be avoided. Unless you go to new construction, there is no US alignment between two cities that is suitable for true high speed service. A few lines today reflect the era when competition came from animal-drawn wagons, barges and steamships where 20 mph over mountains and along river valleys was breathtaking. In the 19th Century, 40 mph was as fast as a racehorse and sustainable over many more miles. 60 mph represented the magical mile-a-minute. Paved highways and automobiles came after most railroads were built. Of course, bringing a heavy train down a mountain grade under control is still breathtaking.
The extent to which PTC will result in an increase in maximun permissible speeds on lines where the current signalling permits a 79 mph maximum remains to be seen. FRA will probably address the subject when it issues revised signal rules which cover PTC (something it’s going to have to do pretty soon, if the railroads are to have any chance of meeting the government deadline for installation). In principle, at least, PTC is an enhanced automoatic train control (ATC) system so, in theory, maximum speed for PTC should be at least as fast as permitted for ATC. But there are some other issues which may effect this. For example, will PTC be a “vital” system, or will it be a non-vital backstop for existing signal systems? The answer to that question may effect how fast FRA will allow trains to go on PTC equipped lines.
Slow orders are just part of the problem. A more insidious part of the problem is alighting and boarding at stations. Loading a carfull of passengers destined for one station where other passengers will board and fill the vacated seats can cost up over ten minutes checking tickets and photo IDs with Homeland Security procedures and 2-person train crew.
It can take more than PTC and upgraded track to go faster than 79.
An alignment is needed with gentle curves broader than two degrees with tilt equipment and broader than one degree with non-tilting trains.
Long stretches without at-grade crossings are needed to accelerate and sustain speeds substantially higher than 110 mph just to save a minute.
I took my GPS on the California Zephyr from Emeryville to Denver, and
recorded a track each day-time.
There were extended periods at 30 and at 40 mph. Shorter time at 50.
Only about 25 miles were covered at 80 mph.
John
I, too, have taken a laptop computer with GPS on the Carolinian between Charlotte and Baltimore. Most,but not all, of the trip in NC on NS track, we maintained 80 MPH. Much slower in VA on CSX track. 40 minutes stopped on CSX in VA watching freight trains go by. 110 MPH between DC & Baltimore after they replaced the Diesel with electric in DC.
I don’t want to sound like a CSX hater, but it sounds as if the author of “The Men Who Loved Trains” was “on the mark” when describing the differences between Norfolk Southern and CSX.
If you can see the mileposts and have a watch with a second hand, you can get a good idea as to your speed, especially if you have a card that shows the speed from the time taken to traverse a mile. This does not work at night, though. This system worked long before GPS, much less laptop computers was devised.
Johnny
RR,
The speed of any Amtrak train during the course of its run varies from a crawl to track speed which usually is 79mph (higher on the NEC). Any number of factors can result in slower than track speed but the most common causes are slow orders, timing of meets and following slower running trains. Average train speed is more meaningful than is the top speed attained. Average speeds are easily determined using the time and mileage info contained in the train schedules shown on the Amtrak web site. Just be sure to adjust run times when time zones are crossed.Summer schedules may differ from winter ones. For example when major summer track work is planned, train run times may be lengthened in anticipation of delays and slower speeds.
Mark
One issue to consider is that the private RRs can also turn around and set / dictate lower speed limits than what is allowed by law. When the ATS / ATC / Cab signal system rule was first promulgated the private RRs just set lower speed limits instead of investing in the signal systems. Harvey is correct when he types that speed increases resulting from the use of PTC remain to be seen, and are not guaranteed.
I also seriously think that one should invest in increasing the average speed of each train route (go through the route and eliminate slow orders and other speed restrictions, and make the hills and curves much more gentle), as one may receive better value from that investment than simply increasing the top speed over one segment of track on a route.