Where have we seen this before-
http://live.buffalonews.com/2016/07/30/look-new-43-million-niagara-falls-train-station/
Happen before in Albany/ rel, refused to move in over a dispute over rent.
Waste of money, in my opinion but typical for the United States…
Wouldn’t it have been a lot smarter to build a joint facility on the border so the costs could be shared with Canada (GO Transit) and it could be consolidated also with Customs from both sides? That way Amtrak eliminates a seperate station stop at the Canadian side just two miles away from the NY Amtrak station, Customs and border crossing could be streamlined providing for another schedule improvement. The Europeans do this throughout Europe when they have cross border train stations so close together. They move them on the border and eliminate a seperate stop.
How many people in Toronto want to go to Niagara Falls, New York rather than Niagara Falls, Ontario?
VIA does not operate across the river into New York; Amtrak operates the Maple Leaf to/from Niagara Falls, Ontario.
So then get Amtrak to bypass the Niagra Falls, NY station stop in favor of Niagra Falls, Ont. station stop (instead of having the Maple Leaf stop at both). Passengers that prefer the N.Y. station stop can be bussed back to the N.Y. station or N.Y. bus station. This would save 2-3 min in each direction off the trains schedule and really would eliminate the need for a NY station.
So then people going to Niagara Falls, NY have to go into Canada and through customs first before going directly back into the U.S.? Makes no sense.
While I will admit that this was over 20 years ago and times may have changed, there used to be a major outlet mall in Niagara Falls NY located about 200 yards from the Rainbow Bridge. It got a lot of business from Canadians on weekend shopping excursions since various excise taxes are lower in the United States.
You don’t have to go through customs unless your intent is to visit Canada. Like I said before the precedent exists in other places in the world to handle these situations, should be very easy to implement between two friendly countries. You can land in a country and take a connecting flight through it’s airport without ever having to go through customs or getting your passport stamped. You can do the same in a train station you would just need to segregate the passengers after deboarding those who wish to formally enter Canada and those that wish to remain in the United States (even though they are in Canada). Just board a bus, seal the door with a customs seal…drive back across the border with the United States and walla…you’ve deboarded in Canada but via controlled lack of access, were redirected back to the United States without having to go through customs.
They have a train station in Europe which is on the border with France, Germany and Switzerland. It handles trains for all three countries and you know what? Back when they had customs for the three countries you only had to go through the customs for the country you were entering or if you were just visiting the station you could remain in the country you were in without going through customs but all three countries could use the stations waiting area. It was intelligent design.
Isn’t Niagara falls NY also where Amtrak services 2 of the 4 western NY trains?
I’m guessing you’re thinking of Basel SBB. Going through customs at the station would only ever apply to arriving/departing passengers. Through passengers were checked in the moving train (which in the case of trains to Germany was during the very short hop over to Basel Bad - which is a German train station on Swiss territory that is treated as German soil unless you wish to leave the platform area).
In most cases, there was no particular stop right at the border. Customs were handled in moving trains between the last station in country A and the first station in country B. Quite unlike road traffic which had border checks/customs right at the border.
Today, with temporary border controls between Denmark and Sweden, trains to Sweden stop at Kastrup (Copenhagen Airport). Everyone gets off and goes through border controls and then boards the next train for Sweden. Once on the Swedish side, there’s another border control stop in Hyllie (outskirts of Malmö). The whole process adds 20-30 minutes to the normal trip length.
Even in the olden days with extremely strict border controls crossing into East-Germany, the energetic passenger controls were handled in the moving train. Then an inspection for stowaways under the train at the actual border and on the train went.
The new station is already on the border…you couldn’t get any closer unless it was built in the centre of the bridge.
Do somethig similar to what is done in Vancouver BC now and what is proposed for Montreal in a year or two…US and Canadian officers work in the same facility.
When I fly to the US from Canada…I go through through US CBP here (US officers working on Canadian soil) When my flight lands in the US I just walk off and I’m on my way…no further inspection.
Here Canadian officers would would work in the US…Passengers would get off the Maple Leaf and go thru Canada CBSA in the new Station…the reboard to continue into Canada.
In reverse…passengers arriving from Canada…get off the Maple Leaf and clear US CBP in the new station…just as they do now.
You could also increase train service…run the summer weekend Toronto-Niagara GO Trains across the border to the new Station. Passengers would clear US CBP then catch the next Empire Service train to New York. In reverse, passengers arrive on an Empire Service train; clear Canada’s CBSA on the US side then board a GO Train to continue onto Toronto.
With some tweaking of schedules…besides the Maple Leaf, there could be at least one additional connecting service a day each way.
(I believe the new Amtrak Station has high level platforms so something would have to be done to accommodate GO Bi-levels)
As to taking a later summertime train from Toronto and then taking the next Amtrak train east, under the current Amtrak schedule you would spend the night in Niagara Falls. https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/644/929/Empi
As I said…with some tweeking of schedules…
If Amtrak, VIA and GO wanted an additional frequency to work…I sure adjustments could be made. (I Would love to see the Niagara Rainbow return on summer weekends!)
It’s just disappointing to me that two friendly countries with the longest undefended border in the world cannot figure these things out between themselves and streamline border crossings. It’s like the number of bridges between Detroit and Canada…build before the capacity constraints are reached. I shouldn’t have to sit in traffic for 2-3 hours waiting to cross the damn border into Canada from Detroit when there is an event over there (and vice versa). How long is Detroit going to wait before Canada pays for the new bridge connecting the two countries? It is just dumb this stuff keeps happening over and over again and it is not helping either country economically.
Depends on the train. As you know the U.S. Army operated two passenger trains across Germany on a triweekly basis. One that ran lengthwise from the port of Bremerhaven to Frankfurt, and the second that ran crosswise from Frankfurt, through East Germany to West Berlin both intersected in Hannover I believe.
At any rate, the U.S. Army train had an appointed train commander, usually a 1LT or CPT who would have the paperwork (printed official Orders) of each Soldier on the train. No Russians or East Germans were allowed ON the train period. After crossing the Iron Curtain the Train would stop for the guards to search the undercarriages for escapees with German Shepards and Mirrors. However the American Officer had to detrain with the Paperwork and present himself to a Soviet Military FLAG officer that was at the station as the United States never recognized the authority of East German anything. American Officer would have to Salute the Russian Officer while the Russian Flag Officer looked through the paperwork and stamped it. Once that was done the American Officer boarded the train and we were on our way again.
The Border road crossing procedure into East Berlin was handled differently. The East German border guards would board the U.S. Army bus (Olive Drab Mercedes of course…spared no expense) at Checkpoint Charlie and ask to see everyones U.S. Army identification card. If they found any expired they would use it as a pretext to beotch but there was nothing the East Germans could do more than delay the crossing because we did not recognize them as the border authority we only recognized the Russian
People move freely among the different states with few problems, why do we have this absurd paranoia about people moving between countries?
What is the origin of our insane urge to choose up sides? Black against white, management against labor, liberal against conservative, etc. We compete instead of co-operate.
Only a small part of the rules for social interaction within a community are written down and enforced as laws. Most of these rules are customs, conventions, and accepted ways of doing things. They are established, learned, and enforced by growing up in a community and by a miriad of social interactions, some spoken others not, that have the effect of establishing norms of social conformity.
People move freely among the different states with few problems? I guess, but there are some problems. Visitors from Illinois have a reputation of lording it over the native Wisconsinites, and there is a common expression for such visitors that I won’t repeat here. As a consequence, when people ask me where I am from, I say, “Wisconsin, far southern Wisconsin” although my grating nasal accent probably gives me away as having spent my language formation years in Park Ridge. My friends and neighbors and coworkers may be gracious enough not to clue me in on how demanding and assertive I can be. After living in Wisconsin for the last 34 years, and when I recently joined a fruit-growing club in the greater Chicago area and drove down the Tollway to attend some meetings, I was thinking, “What’s the deal with these people, they certainly have some strong opinions that they don’t keep to themselves!”
I remember having to move some boxes and furniture into my house, borrowing my Dad’s minivan and parking it on the street in front of my house. I guess in my West Side nei
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People overgeneralizing is at the root of many of our problems of the sort you describe. One sees it all over. Sad.
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The headline of this thread seems a bit misleading. Amtrak will be moving to the new station shortly
I am addressing a very “hot button” political issue, but it was raised by “what is the big deal about the Niagara NY and Niagara Ontaria train stations” and all of the inconvenience inflicted on passengers. What is so “foreign” about (Canada!), anyway.
I guess most in the U.S. would not have a problem with an open border with Canada whereas many if not most of us would be OK with an open border with Mexico? Or so we say so as not be go against social shaming?
What I am trying to say is that both Canada as well as Mexico, especially Mexico but you don’t think about it that way, would have problems with a border that was reciprocally open with the U.S. Remember Texas? It was part of Mexico, there was an open border with the U.S., and it didn’t work out that well for Mexico.
Former president Vincente Fox, however, had a vision of an open border between the U.S. and Mexico. As far as I could tell, his vision was of an open borders going in both directions, and as the first president from PAN (National Action Party), we was offering new ideas that the long-ruling PRI (Institutional Revolutionary Party) would never dare consider.
As he explained when interviewed on U.S. political talk shows, his proposed “opening to the U.S.” would help build up Mexico closer to parity with the U.S., benefiting the people of Mexico through the resulting prosperity, but also allowing an open border without the fear of a flood of poor Mexicans. He invoked the analogy of Spain and Germany, where the once desperately poor Spain had advanced to the point that Spain and Germany could allow reciprocal immigration and free movement of their peoples (this preceded the EU “Schengen” treaty).
Vincente Fox’s “vision” didn’t go over well in the U.S. (“Open border with Mexico, like that is going to happen”) as well as with Mexico (remember Texas!). But maybe we have
As to how appropriate the title of the thread is, we can consider who the creator is.